Angela,

I have attached an aerial photo of your property. According to the Property Appraiser, you have 1 acre of upland and 1.5 acres of wetland or conservation area or whatever you would like to call it.  It would appear that your property is land locked. You would need the owners of 313 N PREVATT to deed you a right of way through their property in order for you to get to your property. That would explain why you were unable to get the attention of a Realtor to assist you.

Please allow me to explain a few things about wetland and uplands and how the County and the Water Management Districts views such property. I own 2.4 acres of property in East Orange County, most of it being wetlands with only 7/10 acres being upland. I just sold it all for $65,000. I have gone through the entire Wetland Determination process and learned a few things along the way. 

Once a wetland determination is made, it is written in stone. you can not change it. Mitigation is out of the question, unless you have extremely deep pockets and your land is worth many times more than what mitigation is going to end up costing you. That is if your county's D.E.P. will even allow you to mitigate at all. So basically, you own 1.5 acres of land that no one will ever be able to use. I know exactly how that feels. The land does not actually have to be wet to be a wetland. The State DEP uses a formula that takes into account 1. the type of soil, 2. the type of trees grown on the property, 3. wetland wildlife species present (if any). So if you have hydric soil with cypress trees growing on it, there is a 99% chance that the State is going to declare it a wetland.

Now on to your appraisal issue. Here are the properties that have sold in the past 2 years:

151 N Prevatt: This is a 1926 s.f. home on 1.9 acres that sold on 4/2004 for $265,000. Not exactly comparable, I don't think.

730 Lemon Ave: This is a 1602 s.f. home on 4 acres that sold on 4/2006 for $310,000. If you take away the value of the home, that would give the land a value of approx. $25,000 per acre, give or take $10,000 per acre. Nowhere near the $100,000 you are hoping for.

289 Garden St: This is 2 acres, high and dry that sold on 12/2004 for $120,000. This property is not land locked, so no comparable here either.

Your property: You got it Quick Claimed to you this year for $10,000. You have 1.5 acres of wetlands and 1 acre of uplands. Being that your property is land locked and mostly wetlands, I would estimate its value at approx. $30,000, give or take $10,000. In such a case, it would make a decent investment property. If you can obtain a means of egress to the property, it would possibly double in value.

No offense taken, Angela. I like to dish it out so I had better be able to take it. It's all in good spirit, but you probably already know that. And no, I am not cleaver. I just figured that there can not be too many Angela's in your area that own 2.5 acres of land with wetlands on it. I told you that the Property Appraisers Office had everything you need!  Besides, you would be surprised to know what information is available over the internet if you know what buttons to push!

Angela, here is what I would do: First, PLEASE do not take a track-hoe to your wetlands, wasteland, conservation area or whatever anyone wants to call it; until and unless you get with your county DEP office first. Doing otherwise can cost you a lot of money in fines and restoration fees. What you can do without asking for permission from anyone is remove any "non-facultative" wetland plants. In other words, if the tree or plant or vine is not native to wetlands, you can remove it. Things like Brazilian mint, saw palmetto, etc.

I actually love my wetlands. When I go back there, it makes me feel like I am in the middle of the Amazon Jungle. And have you noticed how the temperature seems to be about 10 degrees less in the wetland? I think it is heavenly. I sold mine because of the horrible traffic situation on the east side of Orange County. No offense to Jason, but it is only going to get worse.

Now on to your right of way. I would first consult a real estate attorney and have him or her draw up a quick claim deed that states that Xxxxx Xxxxxx is conveying xx-xx-xx-xxxxx-xxxxx (legal description) to Xxxx Xxxxxx. You are going to need to hire a land surveyor to identify the piece of property by legal description and give you a hard copy of the survey. The survey will become part of the package. Everyone then signs the quick claim deed and it gets notarized. You do not have to involve a Title company to do this, unless you want title insurance on the deeded piece of property. You then take that notarized contract to the Clerk of the Circuit Court Recording Department in your county where it will be recorded as an official record, and thats it. Like I said, if you do this, you will likely double the value of your property, so any money spent on attorneys and and surveyors will be money well spent.

Angela, don't let anyone push you around during this process. This goes out to everyone. A few months ago, Jason gave the best single piece of advice that has ever been posted on this forum: If you don't like what you hear, move on to the next one! I didn't use quotes, because I cannot remember if those were his exact words. But the idea is that it is your money. You tell them what you want, not the other way around.

Please let us know how it turns out.

Dale,

The system that you are proposing seems as if it will take a very long time to pay for itself. I have heard figures of a ROI of 3 years for a whole house gas tankless water heater for areas of very high energy costs, such as southern California. Do you have any ROI calculations for these systems?

You mentioned the dilaterious effects that the added water will have on the leach field (drain field in Florida). Unless something is seriously wrong with your leach field, any bacteria that enters it is eventually broken down into nitrogen gas by bacteria. It is only when the septic tank is neglected (not pumped out) that solids make their way into the leach field. In fact, the septic tank that I just got actually has a filter in it that prevents any solids from making it into the leach field.

Susan,

The form you are referring to is called a DWC 250, NOTICE OF ELECTION TO BE EXEMPT fldfs.com

. Here are the only 2 people that can fill out the exemption form and qualify for an exemption: CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY “CORPORATE OFFICER,  or a NON-CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY “CORPORATE OFFICER”. So therefore, unless these contractors that you are making reference to are one of these, they are in violation of the law and are subject to a big fine.

So don't hire a contractor who can't provide a current State contractor's license number. One of the requirements for obtaining a contractors license in the State of Florida is to get Workman's Compensation insurance. Once the contractor provides you with his or her contractor license number, call the DBPR (Dept of Business and Professional Regulation) and verify that he's actually licensed to do what he claims that he's licensed to do.

I would go a step further and require that they have liability insurance as well. That way you as well as your house will be protected. I hire quite a few contractors for Orange County Government facilities and have never had a problem with a contractor failing to produce both workman's comp and liability insurance.

The other day I stumbled upon a free internet based resource so extensive and invaluable, that I am surprised that no one (to my knowledge) has not mentioned it yet. It is called McGraw Hill Construction. It is a one stop resource for every product, manufacturer, supplier, vendor, spec. drawing, picture, contact info, every everything that you can ever think of that has anything at all to do with construction. In fact, the web address is simply construction.com. Please note that you will need to register for free before you can take full advantage of this invaluable tool.

Folks, this is the tool that the pro's use. It is a real power player in the construction industry. If anyone knows of any other type of internet based resource similar to this, could you please share it with everyone. This type of resource makes life easer for everyone.

Leslie,

Here are a few websites that will allow you to request bids over the internet:

servicemagic.com
thebluebook.com
needcontractor.com

I have used some of these and have had a good response.

Phil,

I don't know how much travertine you are looking for, but I have approx. 200 sf of 18x18 Turkish travertine honed and filled in light and medium. If someone wanted to just do a foyer, this would be perfect. I also have a profile wheel that will allow you to turn the travertine tile into base boards. If anyone is interested, drop me a line.

Zeek,

Concrete will cure for upwards of 10 years or more, as long as it is kept wet. Dry concrete will not cure at all. Fortunately, you will not have to wait that long before you start framing. If it has been properly cured, regular concrete will attain 50% of its strength within one week. Here is an excerpt from the Portland Cement Association website:

"Curing is one of the most important steps in concrete construction, because proper curing greatly increases concrete strength and durability. Concrete hardens as a result of hydration: the chemical reaction between cement and water. However, hydration occurs only if water is available and if the concrete's temperature stays within a suitable range. During the curing period-from five to seven days after placement for conventional concrete-the concrete surface needs to be kept moist to permit the hydration process. new concrete can be wet with soaking hoses, sprinklers or covered with wet burlap, or can be coated with commercially available curing compounds, which seal in moisture."

Justin,

You are correct in saying that urethane has a higher R-value. However, both urethane and EPS (encapsulated polystyrene) are both closed cell. In fact, EPS is so closed cell, that fast-food restaurants serve coffee in cups made of the stuff. The cheap $4 white coolers that you can purchase in convenience stores are also made of EPS.

It turns out that very few panel manufacturers use urethane to build their panels.  The panel manufacturer that I have settled on, ThermaSave, does not offer a urethane panel at all.  Having had the benefit of months of investigation and meetings with panel manufacturers, I now see that the reason very few use urethane is simply because of cost. And cost is the main reason why the SIP panels are so attractive to many folks. Here is how one panel manufacturer explained it to me. If you want R-24 walls, just order 6" thick EPS panels as opposed to 4" thick urethane panels.

Justin, the point is that EPS SIP panels are more cost effective per unit of R-value. And a 6" thick SIP panels are stronger than 4" urethane SIP panels. I did not know this information when I made the comment about them being crap. I will be more careful in the future.

I agree with you when you say that it is more cost effective to build with SIPs than with ICFs. If you want more information about how to compare the cost of one system (ICF, CMU, AAC, wood frame) against another (SIP, tilt-up, pour-in-place), please let me know. This is a subject that I feel most folks do not fully understand. Because most folks want to look strictly at the cost of the panel vs. the cost of the ICF and concrete. There is much, much more that needs to be factored in.

David from Orlando

I guess us Florida folks created such a popular forum, that now folks from all over the country are flocking to it for advice. Oh well! everyone is welcome.

Someone made a comment that the cement fiber skin of the ThermaSave panel can crack. You may want to go to their website and see a video of a pickup truck driving over a ThermaSave panel that is suspended. I can not imagine what force would be needed to crack a cement fiber skin SIP.  If you are refering to the joints cracking, the reason that you use elastomeric stucco on these panels is so that it does not crack. These coatings can expand to as much as 600%.

If I lived in a dry climate, I would not hesitate to use an OSB skin SIP.  You would have an energy efficient home for cheap.  The advantage is that OSB SIP's can be purchased from certain manufacturers in what is called jumbo panels, up the 8' X 24'.  Can you imagine how quickly a house can be erected with that size panel!?

Before my Florida cohorts go criticizing me for recommending a product made of wood, let me tell you my experience with the desert southwest. Years ago, we flew into Bakersfield, CA and drive across the Mojave Desert. We stopped at a place called Calico Ghost Town in the desert.  We were outside in 100-degree heat and did not sweat a drop. I kid you not. The sweat would evaporate before you could feel it. You would end up with salt crystals all over your body by the end of the day.  We stayed at my aunts house in Las Vegas. She had a lawn mower sitting on her patio exposed to the elements. Since the lawn mower did not have a bit of rust on it and looked brand new, I asked her if she had just purchased it new. She told me that the lawn mower had been kept out on the patio for 2 years, uncovered. The climate is so dry that there are no mosquitos or fleas. They can not live there. So I do not think that they have to worry about mold, mildew or fungus like us Florida folks. That is the price we must pay for having quick access to the Gulf, the Indian River and Mosquito Lagoon.

Hey folks,

Here is another one of those items that has been used successfully for decades in commercial applications and is now available for residential use.  It is called a gas absorption chiller-heater. Here is how it works: Instead of investing in a gas ventless fireplace for heat and a separate high efficiency straight cool electric HVAC unit for cooling, why not purchase one single natural gas powered high efficiency unit that does it all. It turns out; gas is by far the most efficient way to cool your house as well. There are several reasons why:

The unit costs less than a high efficiency HVAC heat pump.
The unit has a higher efficiency rating than even the highest SEER rated HVAC unit.
The unit has less moving parts, so it lasts longer and is quieter than conventional HVAC equipment.
Get this one: NO DUCTS OR VENTS REQUIRED, plus each room becomes a separate zone. Instead of cold air running through a system of ductwork, the chilled water is piped into each room to a unit that looks like a baseboard. Each one of these baseboard units is controlled by a separate controller. So you get zoned heating and cooling for a fraction of the cost of zoned ductwork. You only heat or cool whatever rooms you are using.

There is only one company (that I am aware of) that is currently producing the chiller-heater. robur.com

Here is a company that produces a gas absorption cooling unit: coolingtechnologies.com

This last is the only UL listed unit of its kind at this time. It would be great for someone who wants a gas fired air conditioner but still wants the romance of a ventless gas fireplace. I think I fall into that category.

I hope you all appreciate the countless hours that I am putting in finding all this information. A few stars on some of my posts couldn’t hurt, you know!

David from Orlando

Jason,

I am super-jealous of your 2 million five hundred thousand SEER Trane HVAC unit. You got the best of the best, man!!  The power company is going to have to pay you at the end of each month!

For those who want to purchase the best (Trane) without paying full price, there is a way.  I know what you are thinking, STOP!

On February 24, 1984, Trane was acquired by American Standard Inc. trane.com/AboutTrane/Advantage/AmericanStandard. American Standard sells HVAC units under the name of Trane and American Standard. According to my HVAC contractor friends, American Standard americanstandardair.com sells the same exact unit as Trane with the American Standard label at a significant discount.  It is sort of like buying a Toyota as opposed to a Lexus. Same car, different price. Jason, if you could please verify if this is true, I would be very grateful.  You are in the perfect position to find out.

Folks, The following information is very important: Please pay close attention.

The day that your HVAC unit is installed, please make sure and be on site that day. As soon as the unit is installed, you will need to take precautions to either put a steel cage over the top of the condensing unit, or deface (scratch, dent and spray paint) the condensing unit, or better yet, do both.  Do whatever you need to do to make sure that your unit does not walk away.  Please don’t allow some #@!!&%* *%?!% to ruin one of the most joyous experiences of the entire project, the day that your HVAC unit is installed. Face it folks, we live in a wicked world. Please heed this warning and take the necessary precautions to make sure that someone does not walk away with your unit. Don’t wait a few days. Do it immediately after the unit is installed. You will not regret it.

David from Orlando

Lisa,

The only reason that I mentioned my brother and my good friend is to demonstrate the fact that there are a lot of people in the granite business. My brother is swamped with contracts and my good friend does high-end work at high-end prices. He did my stunning Verde Fuoco 1" thick granite counters at a discounted $100 per s.f. I would hate to see what he normally charges.  You will be able to do better by getting some bids. I can give you his number if you are still interested.

I agree that Jason and Cara are a wealth of information. They are actually underway with their project, so everything they post now is not theory. It is real life, real time experiences that they are currently going through. There is no better source of information than that.

As far as the windows at Stock Building Supply, Lowes, Home Depot, etc., I am trying to adopt a contractor mentality concerning supplies. When I start my home services business in Tallahassee, I will not have time to waste trying to get prices and information from a multitude of discount suppliers. I plan to pick between 2 or 3 suppliers and keep tabs on the most common types of windows, doors, trim, etc.

For instance, I have chosen Pella and Andersen as my window suppliers. The reason is simple. You cannot match the customer support that they offer. Pella has its own showroom/sales offices: http://pella.know-where.com/pella/. Just go to the website and put in your zip code. They will answer any question you have concerning any Pella window and get you and instant quote.

Andersen also has contracted with several building supply companies throughout the U.S. to serve as a showroom for them: andersenwindows.com/servlet

Again, just put in you zip code.

The folks at both these locations are experts in their respective product lines. My though is that if I have to spend 2 hours at Home Depot to try and save $20 on a window, I have probably lost $100 in wages because of wasted time. I plan to work smart, not hard.  In any event, I can always contact the places mentioned above, get the information and price that I need, and then contact Home Depot and Lowes for an additional quote.

Here is another bit of information that a lot of folks may not know.  Many companies that sell to Home Depot and Lowes make cheaper versions of their regular products exclusively for sale to these stores. This is especially true when it comes to floor coverings and paint. For instance, Home Depot sells the cheap inferior grade stuff through their Home Depot stores and the good quality stuff through their Home Depot Expo stores. This is what I have heard.  Please do your own independent research on this before accepting my word as truth. 

David from Orlando

Hello Jim,

I will be at the show Saturday bright and early. I will be wearing a light blue long sleeve shirt with Dunright Remodeling embroidered on the front of the shirt with my name below it. I will be looking specifically for products and tools that I will be able to use in my new remodeling business in Tallahassee.

While I am on the subject, I would like to update you on what I have been doing for the last few months. I have been clearing my lot in Tallahassee and lining up all my tools, uniforms and promotional materials for my new home remodeling venture in Tallahassee. My 1840 s.f. $115,000 manufactured home is being set up as we speak. Just let me say that manufactured homes have come a long way since the days of aluminum siding and 2x3 studs. Sylvia and I are thoroughly impressed with the fit and finish of our manufactured (mobile) home. The 6 foot long low-e vinyl insulated windows are as good or better than any Pella window I have seen thusfar. The tape and texture on the walls and knockdown on the 9 foot ceilings (throughout) is superb. The bullnose corners also add a nice touch. The home arrived without a single crack in the walls or ceiling. That may be due to the fact that we had Homes of Merit upgrade our home to 2x6 construction 16" o.c. and 2x4 16" o.c. for interior walls. The architectural shingles look great on the 4/12 pitch roof. The fully insulated oval glass front door with the 12"x36" deadlight above it really brightens up the front entrance.  We finally decided on a York 3.5 ton, 15 SEER, variable speed heat pump split unit with electronic air filter and ERV. No, this is not what the factory normally puts in their homes. I got $2500 credit from the dealer and hired my own HVAC contractor to put in a split unit instead of one of those package units they normall come with. $8300 later and all is good with the world. My 4" well that goes down 263 feet ended up costing me $6200. Another $2300 for the septic tank and drain field.

While I would have to admit that this type of home will not work for someone needing lots of square footage, it is however a viable alternative for someone immediately needing a nice place to live without the sky high price tag of a developer site built home with all the add-ons. I still however dream of building my own 3500 s.f. SIP house, but I have to postpone it until I get my remodeling business off the ground. 

See you all at the show!

David from Tallahassee

Hey Patrick,

Wondering if you ever found what you were looking for. Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, a Plans Examiner is a licensed individual who works strictly for a municipality; city, county, or state. They are not like a fee consultant, nor do they have the ability to stamp plans. You will need to contract with an engineer for that. I am surprised that your architect did not fill you in on that. Or perhaps you purchased a set of generic plans and are now looking to get them stamped locally so you can pull permits?

The engineer's stamp aside, many municipalities will review your plans during certain stages of development. This arrangement benefits everyone involved, because the architect, homeowner and the county all end up with what they need in a more efficient manner than if you have your plans completed and then submit them to review at the very end. It may be worth a try to at least ask.

Baine,

I am with you on that thought. What you are saying about owner-building as opposed to Buildmax or U-Build-it or build-a-burger or build-whatever is basically what I had posted a few weeks ago.

However, one of the owner-builders made a good point in basically stating that you gotta' do what you gotta' do some times. If you don't know a shear wall from a stem wall or  tie beam from a ridge beam, it is my opinion that you should consider one of these companies if you insist on participating in the building process.

My personal opinion is that you should stear completely clear of these ripoff companies (also my opinion) and buy a home from a developer if you don't know how to build a house. To try and learn the building process while you are owner-building a house is setting yourself up for immense frustration and huge cost overruns. I am not saying that you should not owner-build. I am saying that you should not even think about starting the process until and unless you are familiar with the building process. That takes a lot of time and study and posting on this site. No one is going to save 30-40% on the cost of their home without a great deal of research.

And now a word about the folks who started this forum; Jason and Cara. We have not heard from them in some time now. I don't know if they are just extremely busy or perhaps disenchanted with some of the changes that have taken place on this site or something else. For instance, the list of folks that are currently on line is all mixed up now. I liked it the way it was before. This forum got all chopped up in a way that does not make much sense. In any case, I think that if we all tell Jason and Cara how much we value their insight and research, they will keep posting. We can only hope.

An inspector is going to want to make sure that whatever you have constructed is constructed to code, regardless of whether it is located in finished or unfinished space.  If the inspector inspects a plumbing, electrical or HVAC rough-in, that inspector is going to want to eventually do a final on it as well, unless he is either blind or has a poor memory. If you run conduit, nothing that I know of says that you must have wire in it. If you run plumbing, you can always cap it. Same with an HVAC junction box.

The only concern is the fact that your bonus area will not have been submitted to plans review.  There will also eventually be the issue of whether you will be submitting your plans for review when you eventually do finish that area off. If you do not, how will the Property Appraisers Office include that square footage on your appraisal. And if they do not include it in your appraisal, an agent will not be able to include the additional square footage when you eventually list your house for sale. There are several issues that you will need to factor in before deciding to do it on the down-low. A building inspector may eventually be the least of your worries.

Zeek,

According to Florida Statutes 489.111 

 A person shall be eligible for licensure by examination if the person:
(a)  Is 18 years of age;
(b)  Is of good moral character; and
(c)  Meets eligibility requirements according to one of the following criteria:
1.  Has received a baccalaureate degree from an accredited 4-year college in the appropriate field of engineering, architecture, or building construction and has 1 year of proven experience in the category in which the person seeks to qualify. For the purpose of this part, a minimum of 2,000 person-hours shall be used in determining full-time equivalency.
2.  Has a total of at least 4 years of active experience as a worker who has learned the trade by serving an apprenticeship as a skilled worker who is able to command the rate of a mechanic in the particular trade or as a foreman who is in charge of a group of workers and usually is responsible to a superintendent or a contractor or his or her equivalent, provided, however, that at least 1 year of active experience shall be as a foreman.
3.  Has a combination of not less than 1 year of experience as a foreman and not less than 3 years of credits for any accredited college-level courses; has a combination of not less than 1 year of experience as a skilled worker, 1 year of experience as a foreman, and not less than 2 years of credits for any accredited college-level courses; or has a combination of not less than 2 years of experience as a skilled worker, 1 year of experience as a foreman, and not less than 1 year of credits for any accredited college-level courses. All junior college or community college-level courses shall be considered accredited college-level courses.

The Construction Industry Licensing board Verification of Experience pdf., myflorida.com/ states at the top of the form: "Florida certified contractors may provide verification of experience for initial certification applicants:"

You can also go to this site for more information: floridaexam.com

In other words, if you are qualifying for the exam based on 3 years work experience and one year as a foreman or a combination of educational credits and work experience, you must have worked for a certified contractor. No free lunch here.

But all is not lost. Some counties have less stringent requirements for their competency card than the State does. So why not check out the requirements of the county that you want to work in? I am going to try and get a specialty contractors license in Leon County that will let me do remodels, carpentry, painting, etc.

Lynnette,

The link you supplied does not work. Last year I exhausted all resources trying to get into the show, but found that only tradesmen and related fields could get in. I was unable to obtain tickets, because there were none available to the general public. If you have a working link that proves otherwise, I would love to see it.

As it stands now, according to the NAHB, and I quote: "The 2007 International Builders’ Show is not open to the general public. Building industry professionals and their affiliates throughout the housing trades are welcome to register by visiting the Show’s newly redesigned Web site at BuildersShow.com."

All other news sources that I could find also stated the same thing.

Brian,

It is possible that you may find someone willing to share their tools with you, but it is unlikely. If a contractor has construction tools in good condition, why would they be willing to deprive themselves of the tools of their trade for an undetermined amount of time to someone they are unfamiliar with, all for a few bucks?

If by chance someone who has tools in poor condition is willing to lend them out, this could be disastrous, as you may be loosing valuable time and money repairing the tool. Also, lots of folks have had the bad experience of lending a clean tool to someone, just to see it returned to them coated with cement, paint or plaster.

Your best bet may be to get prices from you local rental houses. You will be guaranteed that the tool you need will be there when you need it and it will be in good condition. You will be surprised at how cost effective it can be to rent the proper tool that is really going to save you time and labor. If time is money, you should come close to breaking even when renting the proper tool for the job.

Reza,

Termites are not a problem at all with SIP panels if the following conditions exist: The SIP panels were made with cement fiber skins; or they were made with OSB skins and they were installed according to code and the manufacturers specifications.

Allow me to explain a bit about the SIP that I will be using. I would then like to go on to tell you some of the inherent and possible problems with ICF’s. The SIP panel that I will be using is manufactured here in Florida. It is a cement fiber skin SIP, and can be ordered prefinished with colored stucco. If the slab is raised and soil is not allowed to build up along the foundation, this type of panel is no more susceptible to termites than concrete block is.  There are many benefits to constructing with cement fiber SIP’s. The main benefit is costs savings because of the ease of construction. A crew of 3 or 4 can erect an entire house in 2 or 3 days, including the walls, floors and roof. Once the house is erected, you will not need insulation, vapor barrier, exterior sheathing, roof deck, furring strips or drywall.  The only place that I will use wood on my house is around the windows and doors.  There will be no wood on my roof. If you want more info on the subject, you can read my other posts concerning SIP’s on the Contractor consultant in Orlando forum.

Now on to ICF’s. This is also a good system, but not a low budget system. ICF differs from SIP’s in that it requires some type of sheathing on all the walls, inside and out. And unlike SIP’s, you must still put a conventional roof deck on your house.  One of the issues with ICF has always been the questionable pullout strength of the plastic hangers. These plastic hangers are what holds the eps foam together. These hangers are also what you will hang your drywall, exterior sheathing and wall cabinets from. So you need to be assured that they are strong.  Also, you must make sure that your contractor cleans out the wall cavity of any loose foam pieces before they pour concrete. Some contractors cut the windows and doors in place, allow the foam chips to fall into the wall cavity and then never clean it out. That practice will spell disaster for that home eventually, as it creates gaps along the bottom edge of the concrete where it is supposed to meet with the foundation. Other than that, ICF’s are a good alternative.

As far as total cost is concerned, poured in place walls or cement skin SIPs’ are more cost effective than ICF’s, because of ease of constructioin.

Phil,

I consulted the 2006 supplement to the 2004 Florida Building Code and found the following pertaining to gable roof overhangs:

R609.4.5 Gable Overhang. Gable overhangs up to two feet in width complying with Figure R609.4.5 shall be permitted.

I also attached the following graphic that is also found in the 2006 supplement:

Jason,

We all appreciate your honesty. When I went into Home Depot last month to price out Jeldwen aluminum clad wood windows and Anderson windows, the guy behind the counter thought that it would be a good idea to also price out the American Craftsman (aka Silverline) windows. I can tell you that it is very hard to resist paying approx. $220 for an American craftsman vinyl window when a Jeldwen or Pella aluminum clad wood window costs more than double that price.  Jason, I want to be clear on this. Are you saying that if you had to do it all over again, you would have went with Pella (or Jeldwen)?

I also think that your experience is serving as a wake up call for those of us just starting out.  While we should not expect for things to go wrong, we should however be realistic and realise that things can and will go wrong.

And speaking of things going wrong; I would urge you to please take some sort of action to make sure that your new HVAC unit does not go the way of your garbage can. Suffice it to say that there is a large population of "my people" living and working in your area. And while I am ashamed to admit it, a fair number of "my people" have no conscience whatsoever. While the majority are honest, warm, loving individuals, unfortunately there are those who would not think twice about steeling a unit and reselling it.  They will not however be able to do that if the unit is defaced in some way or locked up in a cage.

Lisa and everyone,

I am in fact going nuts. But I like it like that way because I fit in with my friends better.

I digress. Upon closer examination, I see that whoever split up the big thread really did not split it up. If you will notice, the original "Looking for contractor consultant" thread is still there and in tact. What someone did was copy that thread and then split the copy into pieces. I don't know why they did that or what they were trying to accomplish. Folks, please feel free to email Mark at mark@ownerbuilderbook.com and ask him about the split up and feel free to make any suggestions you like as well. Mark has always responded to my emails and I am sure you will find him responsive as well.

In any event, my original request to Mark was that the giant thread be split up into logical subjects so that newcomers would find it easier to get information on any topic they want without having to go through 400something posts. The way it stands now, it is more confusing than ever. Oh well, such is life.

Lisa,

I believe that your question boils down to personal preference and budget. To quote Jason, one system is not necessarily better then another, just different. I do believe that the floating floor system would keep your floor from developing [as many] settlement cracks and would keep the inside somewhat dryer and better insulated. Having said that, if you are not going to use tiles (ceramic, porcelain), a floating floor is not really necessary.

I am having a bit of difficulty relating to some of the costs per s.f. that I am hearing, because my plans are (if I don't haul off and purchase a manufactured home at $50 per s.f.) to OWNER-BUILD. I have already gotten two estimates from two contractors to build the dried in envelope with SIP's over a monolithic slab. Both have come in at approx $31 per s.f.. I am wondering if it is actually going to cost me another $70 per s.f. to finish off my dried in envelope?!! Tell me it isn't so.

Lisa, don't quote me on it, but it sounds like your contractor is sub-contracting your walls and then marking them up. If so, this would explain his reluctance to use poured walls. Except for perhaps the main and sub-panels, wiring is not run inside CMU walls. So I don't understand why your contractor is saying that poured walls are more difficult. As far as building to a higher standard; the only standard that I know of is whatever standard (code) applies to your county. You either meet code or fail the inspection. I don't know what the term "higher standard" means, unless he is talking about finishing your walls and ceiling to a level 4 or 5 as opposed to the "standard" knockdown and texture; and your floors are laser leveled.

In my opinion, if your contractor uses subcontractors and then marks up the price of the subs, that does not qualify as owner-building. To me, owner-building is pulling your own permits, contracting your own plumber, electrician, mechanical contractor, roofer, framer, drywaller, etc. And then getting a discount from the contractor for installing your own switches, cover plates, receptacles, toilets, faucets and sinks; doing your own caulking, priming and painting and (if possible) your own trim; hanging your own doors and windows; and putting down your own floor. Am I way off base by thinking this way?  I would be interested in hearing others opinions.

Del,

I would love to turn this forum into something really fun, boat building. But I can feel the back of my neck burning as I type this post,.....if you know what I mean.

If you don't mind, I will like to PM you with my ideas.

Lisa,

Tilt-up is a term that is most often used to describe mostly commercial construction, where the walls are actually poured on site. Formwork is erected right on top of the slab, poured, and then "tilted" into place by a large crane. Superior Walls (Weaver Precast) does "precast" concrete. See illustration:

Lisa, you will be happy to know that I spoke with the Lady at PCW about 4 months ago about pouring my walls in Tallahassee. Although I do not remember her name right now, I do remember her being a super-nice lady. To the point where she spent 45 minutes with me on the phone. Real upstanding lady in my humble opinion. She was even willing to send her crew to Tallahassee for me, although they normally do not venture out that far from home.

Lisa, please don't take the following as a criticism or an indirct insult, for that is not my intention. The following is just an observation, my opinion. The O.B. experience can be frustrating at times, but can also be an absolute joy as well. Trying to maintain a certain level of joy sometimes is going to end up costing you money. It is inevitable. Meet with some more vendors ON SITE and get detailed fixed proposals good for X number of days. If a contingency arises, decide whether the additional cost of the contingency is worth it or not. Ask yourself what is the probability that you can do SIGNIFICANTLY better and come out ahead by changing the game plan, taking into account all the factors. Stated plainly: Put a price on peace and tranquility.

Jason,

You may also want to try gcocarpet.com and ifloor.com. You may possibly be able to end up with an upgraded carpet for perhaps the same amount of money. It may be worth a try.

Also, I am very grateful to Jason for mentioning the gas tankless water heater. I am going to have one installed, a through-wall model. They cost a little bit more than an electric tankless, but save a ton of money on the electric bill. What you have been saying about targeting where you spend your money and focusing on the water heater instead of the HVAC is very true.

I am going to purchase a 15 SEER HVAC unit instead of an 18 SEER and reinvest the savings into the tankless gas water heater, about $1,400 for a really good one. I am also purchasing a gas stove and ventless fireplace. The gas company will bury the tank. The rental fee on the tank is $50 per year. They will run lines to the appliances for $200 per appliance. My thinking is that an electrician would have charged me much more than $200 per appliance to install breakers and run electrical lines to these high-amp appliances. Plus I will save on my energy bill, because gas is produced domestically.

Jason, practically all the lighting in my home will be compact fluorescent or T5 fluorescent cove lighting. Between this and the gas appliances, I am hoping that my electrical quote will not be so high. Plus, I can install the fixtures and outlets myself. I cannot afford a $25,000 electrician bill. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks

David

Jason,

The gas company was going to charge me $50 per year for the tank, not per month. Perhaps their burial fee is not so steep, I don't know. 

I have been to Stock Building Supply four times already. This is my take: they are great if you need lumber or any type of wood or polyurethane trim or architectural detail or a good price on high-end wooden doors, but they are absolutely horrible with customer support when it comes to windows. I tried to get a price on a split-arch-top casement window by JELD-WEN. The guy was reluctant to take my order at first, and then eventually lost it. 

Folks, the following information can save you a lot of time and aggravation when it comes to purchasing windows: If you need an off-the-shelf 3x5 window or 2/8x6/8 door, you can go to Home Depot for Therma-Tru, Silver Line (American Craftsman), JELD-WEN or Andersen; or you can go to Lowe's for Pella or Better Bilt. However, if you need something with a bit more style like a hexagon, eyebrow or arch window, please don’t bother with these stores. They will not be able to help you! Better yet, forget they exist and read the next paragraph.

Pella has their own showroom/retail store here in Orlando, 350 W. State Road 434, Longwood, Fl 32750. Phone number is 407-831-0600. 

Andersen also has their own showroom/retail store, Manning Building Supplies Inc., 1600 W. New Hampshire St., Orlando, Fl 32804. Phone number is 407-822-3999.

Folks, these companies care enough about their product to make sure that there are folks out in the field that can use their software programs, answer your questions and give you on-the-spot quotes. When I start my remodeling business, I do not plan on going into Home Depot or Lowe's very often. I am going to stick with places like these where you can get the help you need on the spot. After all, time is money.

Phillip,

I already have priced out the doors you are mentioning.  I went into Home Depot (gagging) two days ago to get a price on the exact JELD-WEN door you are quoting, 2x3 lites, low-E, 6x8. After about 20 minutes on the phone to JELD-WEN, the Home Depot guy told me the door was $9,700. I don't think so! Phillip, make sure that the price they quoted you is correct.

In any event, the door that I showed in my earlier post does not cost $4,000. It costs $2,700. It is from MAI (Moulding Associates, Inc.) maidoors.com This company was entrusted by the Biltmore Estate to build their doors. My door is Miami/Dade approved. Delta Regency eyebrow pair door, pre-hung, 6/0x8/0 overall, 2x3 true divided lites, insulated beveled glass, LVL door construction, true mahogany door. I can get it factory-finished for another $800. One of the reasons that I do not necessarily need (or want) a fiberglass door is because my entryway is partially enclosed. There is a formula that you use when working with wooden entry doors. The right-angle distance from the drip edge (or gutter) of your entry enclosure roof to its supporting wall should be roughly equal to the distance as measured from the door threshold to the point on the wall above the door as mentioned above. In other words, if the drip edge or leading edge of your entry enclosure is 10’ above the walkway, then its roof or overhead should extend out roughly 10’ from the wall. If the door faces due east or west, it will only get about two hours of sun a day at most. If it faces south or north, it will not get any sun at all.

Ah! You are probably thinking, what if the door gets wet! One of my many passions is wooden boats. I am sure that you have heard of Chris-Craft. This company was founded by Chris Smith in 1927. Why do you think that Chris chose mahogany to build his world famous boats? That species is impervious to water. Boston Whaler also uses mahogany in the bench seats of their dinghies. The point is if you have a proper entry enclosure and a proper finish on the door, the door should last longer than the house. And when you look at the door, you will know for sure that you are looking at real mahogany with its rich, deep and varied tones and subtle grain.

Bottom line is, why pay more for less? I am beginning to hate JELD-WEN, and favor Andersen and Pella for windows and MAI for doors. The battle lines are being drawn as we speak.

David

Phillip,

I got my MAI price from Stock Building Supply (407) 291-2641. It would appear that Mcphillips Mfg. is selling the same exact mahogany arch-top doors as a company called Doorsdoorsdoors.com. I have a theory. I believe that Mcphillips and doorsdoorsdoors.com are both buying mahogany arch-top blanks from the same source by the container load from South America. They then hang them, mark them up, insert your choice of glass and sell them to you at a hefty profit. This would be my guess. Jason may know more about this type of thing than I do, as he deals with millwork a lot.

Tom,

Please keep in mind that ThermaSave is not a wall or single component, it is a whole-house building system that includes the walls, roof and second floor in two-story homes. I would also add that when comparing systems, you should be a bit more specific than just declaring one system to be “A LOT” cheaper than another. Please make some attempt to quantify your response. People take the information on these posts very seriously.

Please allow me to compare the erection of a ThermaSave dried-in envelope to a CMU (cement masonry units, or “concrete block”) dried-in envelope.

ThermaSave panel home erection: A delivery truck delivers the ThermaSave panels to the job site. Two or three unskilled laborers erect the wall panels and roof panels and ridge beams in approximately three days. You are now ready to install your windows and doors and texture the inside and outside of your exterior walls.

CMU’s (concrete block) home erection: Delivery trucks deliver concrete block, door and window headers, lots of sand, Portland cement, rebar, roof trusses, roof decking, attic insulation, furring strips, rigid-insulation boards, vapor retarder and drywall to the job site. A masonry crew prepares the mortar and erects the concrete block walls and headers. They also attach the rebar at all inside and outside corners, cells surrounding all doors and windows, all along the header and vertically every 10’. Once the wall is set, they carefully mark the locations where the truss ties will be installed and call for a concrete truck. They then use a concrete pump or a bucket and fill the header with concrete. While the concrete is still wet, they insert the truss ties on the marks. Now the framing crew installs the roof trusses and fastens the roof deck to the trusses.

Once the roof deck has been installed and dried in, an insulation contractor installs attic insulation, and a framing crew installs furring strips, ¾” rigid-insulation boards and vapor retarder to the exterior walls. Next, the drywall crew comes in and hangs drywall onto the furring strips. Also, a stucco crew installs a scratch coat in preparation for your stucco texture coat (a scratch coat is the first coat of cement that goes onto the concrete block exterior). After several weeks have gone by, you are finally ready to install your windows and doors and texture the inside and outside of your exterior walls.

Tom, your use of the word cheap is a bit vague. Could you now give me the cost per square foot of livable space for a dried-in concrete-masonry-unit home, as described above? Please include all materials and labor. Let's use a hypothetical home, single story, 32x44, 10-foot walls, 4/12 pitch roof, R-32 sprayed-on foam insulation in attic. Please do not include the cost of mineral roll or roof shingles. As soon as you have completed your analysis, I will tell you what the comparative cost is for a ThermaSave home.

Cheryl,

One of the problems with this forum is that folks are free to post whatever they like. I am seeing a definite tendency on the part of some folks to grossly oversimplify the matter and sort of shoot from the hip and say whatever feels good. I have been guilty of that myself at times. 

All the properties that I developed in East Orange County had sumps, including the one that I owned at 18450 Hewlett Road in Bithlo. Please allow me to expound a bit about septic tanks, drainfields and sumps. As you already know, gravity feeds the waste water into the septic tank. The septic tank has a baffle inside that does not allow solid waste to float down the pipe and into your drainfield. Many people believe that the septic tank maintains itself and never needs pumping out. This is only true if you invest in one of the high-tech septic tanks that Jason mentioned earlier. If not, you will need to have your septic tank pumped out an average of once every 3-5 years for a family of four. If you do not, the solid waste will eventually clog your $5,000 drainfield and you will have to pay big bucks to have it removed and install another.

What I am proposing is this: Build your house on a monolithic slab (as opposed to three or four feet above grade on a stem wall), and have a sump pump installed. Just make sure that you put a PVC union on the pipe going to your pump: acehardware.com. In the event that it does fail, a new sump pump costs approx. $175 and should last you anywhere from 5 to 10 years (my dad’s sump pump is 14 years old and still going). You can purchase it at Lowe's or Ace and install it yourself in under two hours. When you have your septic tank pumped out, replace the sump at the same time. Sort of like when you change the timing belt on your car, you also change the water pump (you are doing it that way, right?) Here’s the math:

New sump pump every three years for 30 years: $1,750
Raise your home up with a stem wall and lots of dirt: $20,000

There is a money-saving added bonus to having a sump pump deliver the water to your drainfield. If gravity feeds the water to your drainfield, the sand in your drainfield will begin clogging closest to the distribution box and then work its way back. Your drainfield will have a tendency to clog quicker. With a sump pump, it pumps water at a rate of approx. 2,500 g.p.m., which means that it will distribute water to a larger portion of your drainfield each time it pumps. This will make your drainfield last 50 years instead of just 25.

I hope this helps.

David

Cheryl,

Your house has 3,095 square feet of exterior wall @10', without discounting for door and window openings.

Here are the roof calcs:
@ 4/12 pitch: 5,250 s.f.
@ 5/12 pitch: 5,400 s.f.
@ 6/12 pitch: 5,600 s.f.

At an average $4.50 per square foot, worst-case scenario is $39,000 for materials for your 10' walls and a 6/12 pitch roof. Add another estimated $20,000 (this may be a bit high) for erection costs and $10,000 for cuts and fasteners, and that gives you a cost of $17 per square foot under roof (this includes the garage) for a dried-in, insulated envelope (minus the roofing materials). This would include a 10' ThermaSave wall between the garage and the interior of the home. Does that sound expensive to you?

On your floor plan, I would like to compliment you as well. A few suggestions: And please understand that they are just suggestions, not criticism. There are no rights or wrongs when it comes to architecture (David says as he cuts his tongue clean off ).

I agree with Jason. The living and dining areas kind of smack you in the face as soon as you walk in. I would consider relocating the front porch roof a bit to the right until the entry door is centered in the middle of the porch. I would also change the dimensions of the porch to 10x16 instead of 8x20. It will look more contemporary and provide better coverage. I would then eliminate the 2.5x6 closet to the left of the entry door. This will allow you to create a foyer by simply adding a 4' wall running somewhere between the dining area and the front entrance. The foyer is the perfect area to create a “landing pad”. This is an area that has a stylish table with centerpiece on one wall and a chest of drawers on the opposing wall, sitting atop a tile mosaic. What a pretty picture. You can use the chest of drawers to store your car keys, purse, sunglasses, folders, kids, husband, etc. It can be an antique, eclectic or contemporary piece.

Your kitchen is ripe for an island. Eliminating that wall between the kitchen and family room would really bring the family and guests closer together and be more conducive to free-flowing conversation. As the very least, I would relocate the pantry so that is positioned between the dining area and the kitchen. It would give it more of feeling of a formal dining room as opposed to a dining area, and it would automatically open up the living room. The door between the dining room and garage is really killing the dining room space. I would consider relocating it to the game room.

Your floor plan includes three bedrooms, one master bedroom, 3.5 bathrooms, a 525-square-foot game room and two offices. It really is a novel use of space for a house with 3,340 square feet of air-conditioned space. I do not usually see these types of features and in these quantities until I get into the 5,000+ square-foot range. One thing I do see in the master bedroom of homes that size is very large walk-in closets, double-sink basins, glass-enclosed shower stalls, windows on two of the bedroom walls (in other words, the master bedroom is exposed to two exterior walls), at least one window in the bathroom, and access to the screened porch from the bedroom via a sliding glass or French door. If for whatever reason you were to ever need to sell your house, rest assured that buyers will be looking for these features in a home the size of yours.

David

Cheryl,

I understand completely. At one time, I lived in a community with mobile homes and in a mobile home. It is miraculous what you can do with 6’ PVC fencing that is strategically placed on the property line between your window and the neighbor's house.  

I used 3D Home Architect by IMSI to design my home: broderbund.com.

If anyone has that program, or you can view .bmf or .fpt or .dxf or .vrml files and you would like to critique my floor plan, please let me know. I just have to put a few finishing touches on it and I will be done.

Tell us a little about your property. What are the dimensions of the land you are working with? What compass heading does the front of the house face? Describe any nice features and where they are located, etc. It is possible that you can shift things around a bit and get some really nice views of the farm.

Here are two .jpg's of the first floor of my house. You have to imagine yourself hovering over the first floor at a height of 30 feet. The first picture is from above the back screen room looking towards the front foyer. The dining and kitchen is to the left and the living room is to the right. There is a large pantry/storage and laundry behind the kitchen to the right of the screen porch. The stairs are to the left next to the living room. There is a half-bath underneath the staircase, although you cannot see it in the picture. The reason that the foyer extends out so far out is because it is concealing the support beams for the glulam floor joists for the second floor. The openings in the foyer are 10' wide with an arch that starts at 9' and tops out at 10' in the center.

The second picture is from above the front entryway, before you enter the home. From here you can see the triple sliding-glass door that leads to the back porch and the half-bath door under the stairway. I made the kitchen undersized on purpose. The vast majority of the items needed in the kitchen will be stored in the 9x9 pantry behind the kitchen.

The ceiling height for the first floor will be 11' with the exception of the foyer, which will be 12'. I will be using Joist 2000 open-web joists to support the second floor. This will allow me to run my electrical, plumbing and HVAC with no problem. I plan to install strip cove lighting along the walls of the foyer and recessed compact-fluorescent lighting in the kitchen and dining. There will be a light fixture above the dining table and a ceiling fan with light kit in the lining room. Notice the ventless fireplace in the living room. I am considering purchasing a straight cool-split system for cooling and letting the fireplace do all the heating.

I invite your comments. I have been working on it for months and I still come up with improvements on an almost-daily basis. I apologize if the quality is not good enough. This is the first time that I have downloaded jpg's to this site. Sometime tomorrow, I will download some pictures of the second floor.

David

Phillip,

Very nice floor plan. I would be interested to see what the final cost per s.f. turns out to be on that floor plan. If we were competing to see who can build their house for the MOST amount of money, I imagine yours would probably rank pretty high up there. I am trying hard to go in the opposite direction without going too overboard.

Phillip, I know a thing or two about travertine. I had it installed throughout my whole house. I made the mistake of purchasing commercial grade in light and medium. What a disaster!! I also bought a profile blade for my wet saw and turned the tiles into tile baseboards. That turned out well.  Everyone loves it when they see it.

For those who may not have had the good fortune (or misfortune) to have travertine installed before: please make sure and buy first quality (not commercial) double (I said DOUBLE) filled and honed, with no inclusions, and have it installed by not just a tile professional, but someone with a lot of experience laying out and installing travertine in particular. We are not talking thinset here, folks. The process is to first lay down either self-leveling compound or a mud bed. Then an uncoupling membrane such as Ditra: schluter.com, and then laying down the stone with a premium white medium-bed mortar. And every tile must be meticulously back-buttered. We are talking in excess of $10 per s.f. just for the installation. 

A word about travertine. General rule is, the darker the color, the denser the material. So my advice is to try and stay away from light colors. Stick to medium or Noche. Durango is really nice, if you can afford it. And concerning the seal or no-seal debate, I come down on the side of no seal, except in the kitchen. Despite popular opinion, travertine tile is not porous. I repeat; travertine is not porous! It is however, very delicate.

I love travertine. I just can’t afford it for my new home. Phillip, if you are interested in the travertine baseboard thing and don’t want to pay a ton of money for it, please let me know. I’ll bet we can work something out.

David

Phillip,

You are going to have a lot of sweat equity when you are done with this home. I would think that you stand a very good chance of cracking at least a few travertine tiles in three years if you install them on a new concrete floor with no uncoupling membrane. That would be my uneducated guess. I know that polymer-modified medium-bed mortars have their limits. Have you heard of Red Gard by Custom Building Products? custombuildingproducts.com/ProductCatalog/SurfacePrep

It is a crack suppression (I know what all of you are thinking. STOP IT!) membrane and waterproofing membrane that you paint on with a roller. The stuff is great. Custom Building Products put a lot of research and testing into this product. I built a shower stall with regular drywall and then went over the entire enclosure including the floor with two coats of Red Gard. The only thing getting wet in my shower is me and the tile.

As I said, I love travertine, but I had such a bad experience with my install and the poor quality of my commercial 18x18 Turkish travertine that now I am scared of installing it again. I have a lot of lippage. That, plus the fact that I would really need to see a pro putting it down before I would have the confidence to do it myself. I have read John Bridge’s Tile Your World, but it does not go into depth about travertine. Could you briefly describe the method you use to put it down? I would be grateful.

Also, I just purchased Punch Professional Home Design Suite today $70 at Best Buy. It is great. It does everything. But a word of caution here folks. You will need to install a graphics card and lots of memory in your computer to run this monster.

And a final note. I finally had a meeting today with Oscar, owner of ThermaSave of Florida. This gentleman is one of the most fascinating individuals that I have ever met. He showed me a scale model of a ThermaSave house he is going to build for himself. All of our houses would probably fit inside of it with room to spare. I am going to write about my visit to the ThermaSave Vero Beach factory and the ThermaSave panel itself once I get into work tomorrow morning. For those of you looking to build with quality materials and still come in under budget, or just wanting to add onto an existing structure, you are going to find it fascinating. Stay tuned!

David

Here is my experience at the ThermaSave of Florida Vero beach factory yesterday.

My wife and I met with Oscar. Here is a list of the projects that he and his LLC has going:

·      Taking recycled plastic by the megaton and converting it to gasoline for $1.20 per gallon.

·      He is in the final stages of inventing a product for pour-in-place walls that pours like water, foams up like autoclaved aerated concrete, has a psi rating of at least 4,500 lbs, cuts like wood, and has an R-rating of 4 per inch.

·      He is developing a product in Turkey that is all natural. It is applied to the skin to prevent hair growth. Once it is applied, it permanently stops hair from growing wherever you apply it.

·      He is developing a neighborhood in Vero Beach, 32 home sites, five acres each. Oscar showed me a scale model of the house he will be building. The scale model alone is approx. 8’x8’. To say that the home is huge is an understatement. If you can picture the fort (Castillo de San Marcos) at St Augustine, that is what his house will be built like. It has a central court that will feature a fountain, water features, a garden and a bridge.

Remember folks, some thought that Einstein was crazy. Now on to the ThermaSave panel. Oscar set aside a portion of the production room to build a ThermaSave house. He has already completed the walls and windows. He is now working on putting a roof on it.

Oscar has the exclusive rights to the panel in the state of Fl. He also has manufacturing rights. So he makes all the panels that he sells. You can order them pre-finished with colored stucco if you like. They put them up, finish the screw heads and seam and you are good to go. Instant walls. The only reason they put screws into the splines is to comply with code. The glue that Oscar uses on the splines is much stronger than the screws.

Oscar cautioned me against giving out any prices, as the cost of raw materials fluctuates quite a bit. I apologize to everyone about that. He stated that as of yesterday, the price of the 6” thick unfinished panel is closer to $6 psf, plus cuts. The cost would have to be higher than that in order to deter me from purchasing it.

One really nice feature about the panel is that the trusses for the roof only need to be installed every 12 feet. And the truss is buried in the panel itself, so that you have a vaulted or cathedral ceiling without exposed trusses and without the need for additional drywall. The same goes for the floor. The electrical, HVAC, and floor joists all get installed inside the panel. Again, no need to cover wooden floor joists with drywall. And an added bonus is that when you put down your floor covering on the second floor, it is installed over a concrete panel, not OSB.

Oscar has truly created a one-stop shop when it comes to cement-fiber SIPs. His group will take your initial drawings, turn them into sealed plans for a ThermaSave home, make your panels and then install them with his hand-picked crew. Oscar and I had a really good exchange. He even patted me on the back and walked me all the way to my car as we left his office yesterday. 

Tom,

The short answer is yes. Your county building department is more than likely going to want to see an engineering stamp on your plans before they will approve it. If the building dept. approves plans and issues a permit for a CMU (concrete masonry unit, or concrete block) wall, they are going to be expecting to see a CMU wall when they go to inspect.

I know that you did not ask for additional advice, but I thought that I would point out a few things that you may want to consider before modifying your plans. You may have somewhat of a difficult time trying to get the attention of an SIP contractor for a room addition. Also, if the walls and roof in your existing space are not as well-insulated as an SIP is, you are not going to get the full benefits of the energy-saving features of the SIP panels. Also, if you use SIPs for your roof panels on your addition, the fascia boards on the room addition will likely be much wider that the existing fascia, as SIP roof panels tend to be between 6 and 8 inches thick.

I would be interested in reading what the other guys and gals here think about using SIPs for a room addition on a conventional CMU home.

Ed,

It looks like there are quite a few of us at this time that will be getting quotes on an SIP home from any number of SIP builders and/or manufacturers. I am waiting on Steve of Falcon Building to send me his quote.

As soon as Steve sends me my quote, I will create a detailed post with all the information. Steve just looked into a new type of Polyisocyanurate SIP that does not use OSB and is $1 per s.f. cheaper than the OSB SIPs. Please excuse my use of acronyms.

I would encourage anyone who has gotten a quote on an SIP house to post the results, as that is what we really wants to see. In the meantime: If any of you were wondering about the cost of a modular home, I already got a price on the home I'm planning on. It is a 1,331 s.f. (first floor) 1 1/2-story Cape modular home with 770 s.f. of bonus room on the second floor, made by Adrian Homes. Sun Ovation homes of Auburndale quoted me a price of $159,000 for the home, including foundation, stem wall, plumbing, electrical, HVAC, permits, etc. The second floor is stubbed out and ready to build.

I am not saying that is a good or a bad price. I am just putting the information out there for comparison purposes and also so I can get everyone's thoughts on the matter.

Actually Jim, hydronic heater and radient heat are two different things. Hydronic is the type that has hot water running through a radiator. As forced air runs over the radiator coils, usually a base board type radiator, it warms the air in the room.

Radiant heat is the type that uses either electrical resistive wires or hot water plastic pipes that are covered with a thin layer of concrete and then some type of floor covering, usually tile or wood. This web site will explain the advantages and disadvantages of both systems: http://www.speedheat.us/comfort_benefits.htm

Randy,

Residential construction calls for the top course of the block to receive 2 rebar and poured concrete, making it 8x8, not 8x20.  The tie beam that you are describing is used in commercial construction. What can you tell us about your project?  Where is it located (beachfront, riverfront, etc)?

Richard,

Lets go back to science 101. If the heat generated by the suns radiation acting on the roof tile is not being dissipated into the attic space because the underside of the roof deck is now very well insulated, it can only be reflected back out through the roof tile. That means that the roof tile will get hotter and therefore the asphalt component of the tile will tend to dry quicker than a well ventilated attic.

In other words, you will pay less for your initial roof, but will have to replace it more often. And one more caveat, make sure your roofing contractor lays down that roof with no leaks in it. Because a leak is extremely difficult if not impossible to locate when you have a sealed attic. I personally would not consider anything less than a good quality metal roof over a premium membrane put down by a professional metal roofer.

Here is a study about unventilated attics in hot-humid climates: nrel.gov/docs

Lisa,

I have been told by an associate of mine that Indymac Bank IndyMac does a lot of construct to permanent loans.

Here is another one that states up front that you are not required to hire a GC: OwnerBuilderFinance.com

I have always been able to get a better deal over the internet, whether it is a streamline mortgage (FHA refinance with no closing costs) or a second mortgage. Perhaps you should give these folks a ring.

Joe is correct. Tyvek is a vapor barrier and spray-on foam insulation is an insulator. Although 2 part urethane foam insulation would also in effect serve as a moisture barrier, Code will not permit it to be used as such. Besides, insulation goes on the inside while the vapor barrier goes on the outside of organic sheathing, such as OSB and plywood.

Joe,

Judging from the content on their web site, Marquis Construction uses Structall structall.com/ SIPs. I recognized the Structall floor plans right away. Their "Snap'N'Lock" panel is so good that after I introduced Falcon Building to this panel, they wanted to use it.

I also had a very good response from Karen Brown of Truly Custom out of Jacksonville trulycustom.com/. They use the "Snap'N'Lock" panel almost exclusively.

It appears that at the rate we are going, folks visiting this forum that are interested in SIPs will have a nice sizable list of contractors to contact. My only hope now would be that more mainstream contractors would offer to use SIPs.

Randy,

How about you purchase a garage door at the dollar store, have it installed, pass your final, sell it for scrap, and then contact realcarriagedoors.com and have the door of your dreams made to order?  There is always a way!

Joe,

In a market where there were an overabundance of State licensed contractors battling for your business, contractors would probably accept the terms. The fact is that in Florida, most contractors (if not all) are up to their ying-yangs in business and could care less about penalties or incentives. 

I am wondering how many of you out there are having the similar experience, where you get an initial phone call from a very nice person. But then as time goes on, they eventually make you feel as if you are being a bother to them. And eventually, you are lucky if they respond at all.

In fact, I am getting so discouraged with everything, that I am actually thinking of purchasing a HUD home (manufactured home) and to heck with everything.  Then I will have enough money left over to start working in the industry as a business owner and become a contractor myself. Then maybe I will be in a position some day of having to turn away business. Your thoughts are appreciated.

Randy and Joe,

It is possible that you are already aware of the following information. FEMA has a free publication entitled: Coastal Construction Manual: Principles and Practices of Planning, Siting, Designing, Constructing, and Maintaining Residential Buildings in Coastal Areas (3rd ed.). It also covers V zoning.

If you will call FEMA at 1-(800) 480-2520 (M-F: 8:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time) with the information below, they will send you the CD version of this publication for free. It is an extensive 3 volume publication that is basically the bible of coastal construction. This information is what your engineer will be using to design your foundation.

Coastal Construction Manual: Principles and Practices of Planning, Siting, Designing, Constructing, and Maintaining Residential Buildings in Coastal Areas (3rd ed.)

Media Type: CD-ROM

Availability: Distribution Warehouse 

Language: English

Date Published: 06/2000

FEMA Publication Number: FEMA 55CD

Michael,

I agree with you when you say that $8 per s.f. is a bit high. However, there are many ways of looking at the total cost and the long term cost of a project.

For example; does the $5 per s.f. price that you are quoting for stick built include the sheathing (OSB or plywood) and enough insulationto bring it up to at least R26? If not, you will need to add these to the cost of your $5 per s.f. figure, as a SIP already comes from the factory with these.

How about energy costs? The stick built home will have a thermal break every 16" o.c., which makes the efective R Value much lower that the static R Value, making it more expensive to cool and heat. In certain parts of the country, the wood will be suseptable to termite infestation.

There is even an SIP panel that will eliminate the need to use drywall, because it is clad in cement fiber board. This would bring down the cost per s.f. even further.

My point is; when you quote a cost per s.f., you have to look at the whole picture, not just a single component of the structure.

Thanks

David 

Mike,

Sunlight does not manufacture SIP panels. They are basically an architectural firm and building contractor all rolled up into one. Please allow me to suggest a way that can save you a lot of money and allow you to end up with a better product in the interum.

First select what type of SIP you are going to use; OSB, cement fiber or metal skin. I can give you several references upon request. After you have made your panel selection and manufacturer (I can help you with that as well if you wish), talk to the local rep. and get a recommendation for one or more architects. Then go to the architect and give them an idea of what you want to be built. They will perform basically the same service as Sunlight, but at a much reduced cost when compared to Sunlight. And you won't have to pay a middle man for the panels.

Thanks

David from Orlando, Fl

Kenneth,

The following phone number is to a Florida architect 239-434-9364.  This architect has experience designing homes with structural insulated panels.  He had completed a contract to design plans for a 167 unit neighborhood in the St. Petersburg area where the houses were to be built with CMU's. Just as he completed his contract, the developer called him and had him convert all the plans to SIP's, ThermaSteel in particular.

If you are interested, I can dedicate some spare time and get you names, numbers and locations of neighborhoods that are built with pour in place, tilt-up, SIP's, ICF's, AAC (autoclaved aerated concrete) or any other type of building material that you can imagine. I don't know what we would be acomplishing by doing so. I would much rather dedicate my time to explaining to folks the pros and cons and costs of whatever type of building material they choose to build with. One thing is for certain, any one of the systems above will be vastly superior to CMU's or wood frame. That is for sure.

Some folks have been kicking around the idea of using a metal roof on their home as opposed to the traditional fiberglass (asphalt) 3 tab shingle. Those who have considered it tend to be OBers who will be living in their homes for a long time as opposed to those who are building as an investment.

A few advantages to metal roofing: If installed properly by a qualified metal roofer, you will have a trouble free roof for many, many years to come. While the upfront cost is double the cost of a premium fiberglass shingle, the longevity is also double, at least. Where the two systems (fiberglass vs metal) differ is in the way they are "locked down" to the roof deck, something that is very important when a hurricane approaches.

The fiberglass shingle uses a strip of adhesive on its leading edge that is heat activated. The wind rating of the shingle is heavily dependent upon the quality of that bond. The metal roof is physically locked in place by means of fasteners (screws). Most metal roofs use a concealed fastener, whereas the leading or loose edge of one metal tile or section (in the case of standing seam) is locked into the spot where the adjacent tile or section is fastened to the roof deck. (see illustration)

Another advantage is that metal roofs reflect heat better than fiberglass shingles. If battens are used to fasten the roof panels, the airspace below the metal becomes an insulator. Or rigid foam insulation can be installed between the battens for even greater insulating value.

One more feature of metal roofs is that they add aesthetic value to a home in a way that fiberglass shingles can not. For example, a Key West style home done in the traditional manner looks great with standing seam metal roofing. I am considering building an authentic Cape Cod with metal roof tiles that simulate cedar shakes. I know, I have changed my mind several times on my choice of design and roofing, but hey, its fun!  Anyway, the point is that metal roofs have something to offer that fiberglass shingles do not. Unfortunately, economy is not one of them.

Here are a few links to some metal roof manufacturers. The manufacturer will be more than happy to provide you with a list of installers in your area:

classicroof.com

edcoproducts.com

follansbeeroofing.com

englertinc.com

aboutmetalroofs.com

This last link is a sort of gathering place for many metal roof manufacturers. You may be able to find more useful links there.

Enjoy!

Jason,

My roof decision is based on two things: 1. The assumption that a gable roof made of ThermaSteel and a ridge beam will be more cost effective to build than a hip roof with trusses and Icynene insulation. As soon as I get some solid numbers, I will update everyone. 2. I am shooting for an architectural style known as Colonial Caribbean. This style sort of looks like… well, like a barn. Who would have thought? Using a parapet wall on the gable ends makes the home much safer in the event of a hurricane, so I have read.  

I have some resources that I can draw from, having many friends and family (Mexican and Cuban) in key trades that can lend assistance. Case in point: the HVAC unit in my home broke down two years ago. My friends replaced it by the second day with a new-in-the-box three-ton 12 SEER Rheem condensing unit and air handler for $2,950 total, including HVAC unit, installation, material and labor.

Plumbing and electrical will be done by one such friend. I plan on using 14-gauge wire wherever possible. Drywall by a brother-in-law. I will tackle as much as I can of the cabinet installation, flooring, electrical outlets and fixtures, trim and painting. My brother will provide the granite countertops at a considerable discount. I do not plan on having a lot of cabinetry in my kitchen. Instead, I will have a walk-in pantry that will store most of the kitchen items. Being a two story, the cost per s.f. for the second floor should be much cheaper than the equivalent s.f. cost for roof plus foundation.

I regret that I do not have any solid numbers for the ThermaSteel at this time. I find it hard to get motivated to do anything if I have not yet sold my house. Once I close on my house, you will see a wealth of information coming forth about contracts, purchase orders, architects, hip vs. ThermaSteel, recessed and cove c.f. lighting, American Standard 18 SEER HVAC, lap siding, tankless water heaters, flooring, windows and doors, etc. Till then, folks, please keep sharing whatever information you have.

Thanks,

David

Jim,

Now I am really concerned about the synthetic stucco that we have been discussing. The more I research it, the more worried I get. I will elaborate for those who may not know what I am talking about. An Exterior Insulation Finish System, or "EIFS," is a synthetic-stucco cladding used on exterior walls in both commercial and residential construction. EIFS uses a stucco-like polymer-based outer coating containing a plastic resin, which makes the coating softer and more flexible than traditional hard-coat stucco. EIFS is applied directly to the exterior of the ThermaSteel panel as a means of finishing the panel. A cementitious base coat (usually gray in color) is troweled onto the EPS board. Before the base coat dries, a fiberglass reinforcing mesh is worked into it until the mesh is completely covered. A finish coat is then troweled over the base coat. The finish coat can be colored to the homeowner's taste.

The original EIFS stucco cladding used in residential construction was designed to be a complete water-barrier system, theoretically 100% waterproof. This "Barrier EIFS" was installed on thousands of homes all over America.

So, what's the problem? Unfortunately, no provision was made to drain water that may penetrate a barrier EIFS. In fact, manufacturers have recently begun to market a new generation of EIFS, which purports to solve the problem by allowing drainage. In reality, this new "drainable EIFS" cladding is more difficult to install, and its effectiveness and reliability have yet to be proven. Without the ability to drain water, moisture that penetrates the face of a barrier EIFS gets trapped within the wall cavity. This moisture in turn will eventually rust the metal C-channels that make up the ThermaSteel panel. In addition, many insurance companies will deny coverage to homes with EIFS exteriors.

Jim, knowing this, I do not think that I will be using EIFS on my home, not even over a cement-fiber-based panel like ThermaSave. Looks like this is a case where high tech is not necessarily better. Some of my alternatives would be to either use Hardie Board lap siding, or use traditional Portland-based stucco over metal lath that gets attached directly to the steel. I would be interested in hearing everyone’s opinions and ideas on this.

David

Lisa,

I would recommend that you Google the phrase "Ventless Fireplace". A ventless fireplace does not require a chimney, is much more energy efficient than a traditional fluted fireplace, and is much smaller as well. This is another area that I would not go cheap. 

Considering your comment today and Jason's, a central theme is starting to emerge. I have always assumed that Home Depot or Lowe's will give me the best deal, because of volume discounting. You folks are saying that this is not always true. Shop around at your local lumberyard and building-supply store for windows, doors, paint, trim, etc. This is great information. I have a newfound appreciation for Thomas Lumber, 84 Lumber, Cox Lumber, Rinker Materials, etc. Don't forget to shop the Internet for deals on fixtures. We paid $150 on the Internet last year for a lavatory vessel sink that would have cost over $400 at Lowe's.

Happy shopping.

David

For those of you who are thinking about using traditional stucco or Hardie Board lap siding with the ThermaSteel panel: I have discovered a better product than the ThermaSteel panel. It is Infinity Structures, Inc. out of Alpharetta, Georgia, (678) 513-4080, infinitystructures.com

Their MSR33 exterior wall panel is EPS foam and steel beams just like ThermaSteel. However, the difference is in the ship-lap joint. Infinity's ship-lap joint is stronger, hence the MSR (multi-story residential) name. And Jim, these folks are right in your zip code! It couldn't hurt to give them a call.

David

Hey folks, I just realized something as I was poking around this forum.  It was one year ago yesterday that Jason and Cara first created the “Looking for contractor-consultant in Orlando” thread. They deserve a big round of applause. They have put in countless hours of research and put all that information out there for all of us to benefit from. Way to go, Cara and Jason!

Lisa,

If I were concerned about moisture compromising the structural sheathing or members on my house, I would seriously consider using another building system that is impervious to moisture.  Something like pour-in-place or tilt-up solid concrete walls (the best system in every respect), cement skin SIPs (ThermaSave), solid foam/metal truss SIP's (Thermasteel), ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms) or AAC (Autoclaved Aerated Concrete).

Part of the beauty of being an O-B is that you get to choose the best system based on your needs and can supervise its installation so that it is done according to manufacturers installation instructions. The video you make reference to shows a wood-framed wall with OSB sheathing.  I cannot think of a more problem prone building system.  This is why I have mentioned the Titanium UDL interwrap.com roof underlayment so many times.  If I am going to put anything on an OSB roof or wall, it is going to be the best the market has to offer.  I personally, am going to forgo all wood and stick with galvanized steel, EPS foam, cementboard siding and paperless drywall.

Julie,

The house looks great.  Architectural details make all the difference. I love your arch-top windows and the details above them. I must say that your house is just screaming out for stone-coated metal roof tiles gerardusa.com. Perhaps in 10-15 years when you replace your roof, you may want to consider something like this.

Jeff,

Although I am not certain, I would think that it would be more cost effective to have the entire structure made of AAC panels and/or blocks as opposed to AAC that must be braced and then install the steel and then do the solid pour.  Mainstream developers are using the product right here in Florida, because it is cost effective, energy efficient, strong, and can be erected by a regular masonry crew with very little additional training. There are two companies in Florida that manufacture AAC panels and blocks: aerconfl.com, and accoaac.com. Some of the town homes in Avalon Park in Orlando are made of solid AAC panels. 

Lisa,

Concerning your choice of walls, please feel free to continue your research. However, practical wisdom and the good experience that Jason has already had with SWS would dictate that SWS is in fact the best choice by far. Price, quality, simplicity, safety, energy efficiency and healthy indoor air quality. My advice would be to forgo any additional research if a solid pour contractor is available in your area and have them do the walls. It is a no-brainer. Between Jason and I and some others on this site, we have spent countless hours researching and calling for quotes. There is no way you will be able to come up with a better overall system than solid poured walls, be it SWS or another one of the firms that I mentioned in my earlier posts. I am sure that if and when Jason chimes in about the money he is going to save on his homeowners insurance, you will be sold on the system.

There is something that I do not understand about the five-foot well-casing theory that you mentioned. If your five-foot well casing develops a crack and you send down a four-foot well-casing in the middle of the five-foot casing, you are still going to have to somehow cap the five-foot sleeve. Failure to do so will most certainly result in muddy, contaminated water following the five-foot casing down and into the water that will be pumped up by the four-foot casing. I have seen it myself with a new two-foot well-casing that was set in rock 6 feet away from a totally separate cracked two-foot well casing that was also set in rock. Even at 6 feet away from the cracked casing we got muddy water until we capped the cracked two-foot casing below the point where it was cracked. My question is: can the space between the four-foot casing and the five-foot casing be effectively capped in a way that will not cause you problems in the future? I personally would be concerned.

The following post is a bit lengthy, but the subject of cracks in concrete is very complicated and detailed.

Jason, thanks for pointing out the relief cuts, or control joints as they are called. I thought about mentioning it, but then abandoned the idea because so few people have heard if it or are willing to invest in it and the cuts must be made in a very specific way in order to have the desired effect. And as you pointed out, if it is not done when the concrete is “green”, the effects are negligible. The idea behind control joints is two fold. First, when the concrete looses water and contracts, instead of the entire slab shrinking and forming relief cracks, you have smaller units of concrete that will shrink independently. Thus the entire slab will be much less susceptible to alligator cracks.   The second thing is that when the slab does crack, it should follow the control joints if they were properly located and cut.

The following is information that I gathered during my days as a concrete contractor’s assistant and tile installer, from discussions with my bridge building brother in law, and personal observation. We must first distinguish between the various types of cracks in concrete, relief cracks due to improperly installed and cured concrete; and cracks due to a settling foundation or curling. The small hairline cracks that you make mention of could be relief cracks. Here is how you can make a definitive judgment. Relief cracks will exhibit the widest part of the cracks beginning at a point (or points) somewhere in the center of the slab or room. These relief cracks will then run from a central point outward towards the footer and will progressively get thinner as they emanate outwards until they totally disappear. Cracks due to settlement of the foundation will do the exact opposite, will most often begin at an inside corner, and will tend to be much wider than relief cracks at their point of origin. Relief cracks will quickly reach equilibrium (one or two months), while the other will theoretically never stabilize, but will continue to grow indefinitely.

Please do not be offended by the following statement. I am going to prove what I am saying. ALL relief cracks ARE preventable. I manage an 18,000 s.f. warehouse with a polished cement floor than has 0 cracks of any kind. It is not anyone’s fault that the contractor pours a slab with the consistency of Campbell’s chunky soup rather than condensed cream of tomato. As I said before, if you pour concrete with water content of no more than 50% by weight, and properly water cure it, it WILL NOT develop relief cracks, only settlement cracks. I will prove it to you. Go out to your driveway and compare the size and frequency of those relief cracks to those in your slab. They will be fewer and smaller. Why? Because the contractor has very good access to your driveway and does not have to use a concrete pump or watered down concrete to pour it. The driveway always gets poured with the proper amount of water because the contract wants to avoid call-backs. Your floor however gets covered up and no one cares what it looks like. Now you know!

Again, a word about tiles and control joints: If you are going to lay tile, you MUST use a crack suppression membrane over each control joint, or preferably over the entire slab. You can not bridge a control joint with a tile. And if you begin your installation on either side of a control joint, you must use grout caulking instead of Portland based grout to fill that joint. Because if you do use Portland based grout in that situation, the grout will always end up cracking and dislodging from the joint. You will do much better to use a genuine bone-fide crack suppression membrane and install it according to manufacturer’s specs.

On to the glass fiber comment. I am very familiar with the various fibers and weaves used in FRP products such as S-glass, E-glass, carbon fiber and Aramid (Kevlar). The fibers I use are suspended in an epoxy resin matrix at a ratio of 1/1. They have extremely predictable and well documented modulus and flexural strengths. I have read many documents about the strength of fiber reinforced concrete (glass, nylon, polyolefin and steel). According to the technical documents that I have read thus far concerning fiber reinforced concrete, their ability to prevent or keep a crack in a slab from spreading is not very well documented. All I can tell you for sure is that glass fiber reinforced concrete was used in the slab on my home and it did very little to stop huge settlement cracks from developing in my foundation. In fact, 11 years after my house was built, the cracks is my slab are still active. I know this because at least three of the tiles that I laid just last year have already cracked. And yes, I did use a crack suppression membrane that was 3’ wide. Go figure!

The rebar schedule that I previously made reference to would insure that when cracks do develop, they will be under control. Here is the article where I first read of this technique. It is written by two structural engineering consultants with a combined 50 years experience in designing and troubleshooting concrete slabs on grade. Happy reading: stegoindustries.com

Jeff,

What are you wanting a consultant to do for you?  Do you already have your contractors lined up?  Is financing in place? What areas of construction are you familiar or not familiar with?  All these questions would help us determine whether you need a consultant or a GC.

David

Joe,

CPVC will always be available for the immediate future. Instead of using metal sleeves and a crimper, all you need is a bottle of purple primer and CPVC solvent.  I am going with CVPC over copper in my house because CPVC in impervious to fluctuations in pH and chlorine that can pit copper; and CPVC is cheaper than copper. Also, I won't have to worry about someone coming onto my construction site and stealing my pipes before I can cover them up with concrete or drywall. 

Steven,

There are cement fiber SIP's as well as metal skin SIP's that will allow you to run extremely long spans with just the use of a ridge beam. The Structural panels and ThermaSave panels run from the ridge beam to the load bearing wall in most cases without the need for purlins. I believe that these products will run longer spans unsupported than the OSB SIP's will, although I am not absolutely positive. I do know that the longer the span, the thicker the panel will need to be.

Thanks.

David from Orlando, Fl

Angela,

Good to hear from you.  How are you making out with your property?

If your architectural plans are already engineered, I would think that the engineer that certified them would stamp them for free as part of his service. My architect has an engineer in his firm and is charging me 25 cents per s.f. for engineering, stamp included.

I can not believe the estimates that I am getting for a well and septic system in Tallahassee!

There is no impact fee! The most I will pay in permits is $800 total. A 4" rockwell up to 100 feet with pump and 120 gallon tank = $4,600, $12 per additional foot.
A septic system for a 1840 s.f. home = $2,300.

And these are not the best quotes. These are average quotes. I knew there was a reason that I purchased property in Tallahasse. This weekend I am going to look at 35 acres of land off of Hwy 20 for $315,000. Anyone want to join in?

Please also keep in mind that the price for the septic system depends mostly upon the soil conditions at the location of the drain field, the square footage of the home and lastly, upon any local codes that are more stringent than State code. For instance, my septic system in Tallahassee for a new 1840 s.f. home will cost $2,300. This includes everything; permits, the tank and pipes. My system will not require sand, rocks or an elevated mound because of the soil conditions that exist at the drain field site. This is a case where one size does not fit all.