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Previous Owner-Builder Survey
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Did you use some type of written agreement when hiring subcontractors?
Fred in Kingston, Ontario said: I suggest you do. Even if it is a signed quote agreement.
Jeff in Provo, UT said: Yes. I had a very tight contract with late penalties. It worked well for everyone that we had sign it. The one or two contractors we didn't have sign it were the ones that gave us problems.
Gail in Cupertino, CA said: yes
Jeff in Hartland, WI said: Yes. For most subcontractors, I insisted on a formal contract. Most said they hadn't signed a contract in ten years.
LTanya in Virginia Beach, VA said: Not only written, but legally endorsed
Jere in Ray Twp., MI said: No... I used contractors that my step-dad has used for many years. Otherwise I would have.
Jack in Trumann, AR said: Yes. I used the contracts I found on the Owner Builder Book website and some from another book I had and modified them to fit my needs.
Faye in Marseilles, IL said: yes
Mike in Marion, OH said: Yes on pretty much all subs I hired. Some were very simple and some were very specific. Hvac, Concrete work, and framer were the most specific. Septic install was almost a hand shake. He wrote on a bid quote 1500 gallon tank, 900 feet of leach field, and curtain tile $6300.00. And that is exactly what he charged me. None of my subs I hired came in a penny hire than the contract stated.
carrie in graham, WA said: yes
Brock in Walla Walla, WA said: Written bid contract sheets
Pat in Round Rock, TX said: Always have a subcontract agreement stating the scope of work and terms
steve in anthem, AZ said: Yes you can buy software with contracts at www.builderbooks.com
Dayna in Riverton, UT said: The first time we let the subs supply us with a contract, this time we will use our own and use theirs as and addendum to the contract we supply. Our states payment policy (depending on length to finish work) basically maximum of 90% paid upon completion, remaining 10% paid after next building inspection.
Eric in seaville, NJ said: A few, not not too many
Roger in Petoskey, MI said: Yes. I used a brief contract that basically said if they abadoned the job I could fire them. It also listed the price and payment schedule. The contract also said to refer to the designs and specifications (which I created for each sub) which contained most of the detials.
John in Port Republic, MD said: yes standard contract that worked for both of us.
Kenneth in Lees Summit, MO said: Only once. Most subcontractors were hired without formal agreements.
ray in richmond hill, GA said: they gave quote, i payed in three draws or more also got their insurance
Penn in Pittsboro, NC said: yes
Brian in South Burlington, VT said: subcontracts usually
Bob in Robinson, PA said: The ones that we did not know
Brian in Manvel, TX said: no
Jedda in Brighton, ON said: we only used their quotes
Craig in Green Bay, WI said: yes for your cd
Karl in Reno, NV said: no
definitely in hampton, VA said: nope
Aimee in Kalamazoo, MI said: no
Lori in Reno, NV said: No just their business contract which we signed.
Brian in Dome-ville, central, FL said: Yes, every time.
Dan in ATLANTA, GA said: YES
Richard in malabar, FL said: Yes
Max in OKC, OK said: yes
Karlie in Ogden, UT said: No, most of the time we did not write up or sign any contracts. Fortunately for us it worked out pretty well.
Kathlyn in Orlando, FL said: their standard contracts
John in Erie, CO said: Everything in writing. My own contract usually, sometimes theirs.
Mark in Provo, UT said: Usually, no. They would have a bid form estimating the job, and we
would write a few things on it like estimated time to complete, price
not to exceed, who was responsible for cleanup, etc., and have both of
us initial it. When we had a "winner" whom we trusted, we occasionally
did it on a handshake. We were also on-site every day, which helps to
remove any surprises and misunderstandings. I think good relationships
are the most important assurance.
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Latest 5-Star Post
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You can move a post to the front page simply by voting! One issue that I see and it's just my opinion, but the journals are posted in order of views that they get. I'd like to see them listed from the most recently updated to the oldest, like a chronological order. I see a lot of these that people start and don't finish or fail to update and you click on them and they don't change for months. I think there is a lot of good information and ideas in some of them but it is very time-consuming when you click on the same ones over and over again and they
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Bob in New Florence, PA
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Previous Owner-Builder Survey
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What is a good way to get discounts on lumber?
Brooke in Burley, ID said: compare bids?
Jeff in Hartland, WI said: I used a local sawmill for hardwood trim.
Jack in Trumann, AR said: By from wholesalers or from lumber salvage companies.
Mike in Bronx, NY said: Buy In Bulk
LTanya in Virginia Beach, VA said: Volumn, and mismatching colors of the same type of wood when it does not make a difference
Faye in Marseilles, IL said: negotiate with local lumberyards
Mike in Marion, OH said: competitors pricing match minus 10%.
Matt in Highland, IL said: Get competitor bids. We saved almost $7000 by gettign a bid from a lumber yeard outside our area. They were not the typical competition and our lumber yard was surprised at their pricing. They matched to keep my framer's business because they did not want him to utilize a new company that was cheaper and risk loosing his business.
Brock in Walla Walla, WA said: shop and compare, set up an account with a good supplier, pay bills on-time
Pat in Round Rock, TX said: Some lumber compaines wholesale to the public
steve in anthem, AZ said: shop with your previous bid
Brian in Dexter, MI said: get panelized walls, trusses, and lumber in a guarenteed package
Dayna in Riverton, UT said: Ask for the contractor's discount, and if the supplier also sells other things such as doors, windows, hardware for bathrooms etc. have them bid those items as well. We got a package deal that covered about 70% of all our supplies from a lumber company that saved us about $15K from having this same company bid a lumber package and having other supplier furnish windows & towel bars etc.
Eric in seaville, NJ said: shop several places, but compare quality and delivery schedules. Price isn't everything!
Ken in Orangevale, CA said: Buy in bulk with a good plan for what you'll need and allow plenty of time for the supplier to get the goods to you. If he has to rush, you'll pay more.
Roger in Petoskey, MI said: Buy at the end of winter. Buy in bulk. Negogiate. Shop around.
John in Port Republic, MD said: bid bid bid.
winter is the best time around here to buy lumber. Buy it and store it.
Kenneth in Lees Summit, MO said: Ask and you shall receive. Do you own takeoffs, that way you can fax your lumber needs to every lumber supplier in the yellow pages. Since they are all preparing bids based on the same amterial list, you can compare apples-to-apples when the bids come back.
I received a 15% discount on lumber just because I prepaid my whole order. I did this right after the first hurricane hit Florida (2004) anticipating a spike in material costs. Threee hurricanes later, it appeared to be a good strategy that all my lumber had been paid for, not to mention the additional 15% discount.
If you want to take advantage of the big box, H-D has a price match guarantee. Take in your lowest lumber bid (it will be less than H-D), they will price match minus 10%. Then whip out one of your handy coupons good for 10% off (type Home Depot coupon into www.ebay.com, you should always have a couple in your pocket), and you just reduced your lumber cost by 20%. I don't like H-D lumber, and I don't like them using their buying power to sell at a loss to put local suppliers out of business, but if you want to get your lumber at bottom dollar this is the way.
Penn in Pittsboro, NC said: shop as amny provoders as possible, negociate
Brian in South Burlington, VT said: I use my company's buying power.
Brian in Manvel, TX said: Get a take off done and take it two-three lumber yards for pricing.
Make them match lowest priced one if they want it all.
Craig in Green Bay, WI said: I saved 5% by paying before the 10th of each month
Karl in Reno, NV said: Research prices, offer cash!
definitely in hampton, VA said: buy in bulk and from the distrubutor or manufacturer
Lori in Reno, NV said: Not sure we did a panelized package
David in Lowell, AR said: If you have a good take-off from your framer, take it to Home Depot and let them bid it. Then, take it to Lowe's and have them comp it + 10% off. On top of that, you can get an additional 10% off using coupons that are very available.
If you have a lumberyard that did a good takeoff, buy from them. They will usually treat you right. IF they aren't, however, have the big box comp it. Personally, I will stick with my lumber yard because they have really treated me right and most of their prices are lower thant the big boxes anyway.
Richard in malabar, FL said: I don't know
Max in OKC, OK said: don't know
Karlie in Ogden, UT said: Well, we tried the Home Depot route, and it did save us some money, but not enough to make it worth the hassle for the next time.
Jeff in Provo, UT said: I got bids from a few of the local lumber warehouses and compared them.
Kathlyn in Orlando, FL said: Don't know
John in Erie, CO said: Shop around to keep your main lumber guy honest. Quit wasting your time at Home Depot/Lowe's.
Kari in Colbert, WA said: shop and talk your lumber guy down.
Mark in Provo, UT said: Getting multiple bids is important. I think it is worthwhile to check
prices in remote cities. You could buy under the account of someone
with a better discount than you can get.
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Latest Post
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Apparently, I will resurrect this thread! I want a stucco look, but cannot justify the cost, like many of the previous posters. I've been researching this topic and here's what I've come up with... Stucoflex (and likely other brands) shows a wall assembly to apply it's non-cementious "stucco" coating directly over fiber cement panels. This page shows the wall assembly http://stucoflex.com/wall_assembies.htm- I'm looking at the 6th image down. I'd like to use Nichiha panels be
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Dionne in Omaha, NE
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Latest Journal Entry
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First off, I've realized that I need more minutes on my cell plan. We don't have a landline so my cellphone usually has enough minutes if I only call at night or weekends. Well, that doesn't work when you're making phone calls to building departments and bankers and surveyors so I doubled my cellphone minutes. My carrier also offers 10 friends and family which may also help me if I can predict which numbers I'll be calling the most and keep the list updated.
Second, someone el
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Rich in Suffolk, VA
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Construction Bargain Strategies
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117. Time things right
As general contractor on your project, you have the opportunity to create savings by planning the timing on things that could drive up your costs. Some examples are:
Time it to heat your place with your own furnace vs. temporary heat when you build.
The Complete Guide to Contracting Your Home (See our Bookstore) says: "If you get your heating system approved early, normally by passing a quick test, you can turn it on before the house is finished. This will also save you some money when other builders may have gone out and rented a space heater."
If you need a concrete pumper to pour your floors, walks, drives, foundations, or footers, get the cement delivered while your pumper is setting up and only pay the minimum charge for concrete pumping. Owner-builder John Norton managed to keep the $100 an hour pumper cost to the minimum charge of $200 this way.
Same thing with crane charges, usually over $100 an hour. Make sure the materials are ready and the needed lifting is clear-cut before the clock starts ticking.
Timing makes all the difference on land purchase, construction, appraisals for resale, and resale itself.
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Thought from the Book
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Of the lenders I surveyed, 45% made owner-builder construction loans
routinely. 15% did so on a case by case basis. That's more than half who
will make these loans. If your preparation is well done, you will get a
loan from any of the 60% who will consider it. You may come out so
prepared that the 40% who don't do it will make an exception for you.
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The Lady Who Waited
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by Mark A. Smith
One of our readers, Melissa D. of Hanover, Pennsylvania was going to
break ground this fall on a new home. She decided to wait.
She decided she wasn't prepared.
It's not that she is inexperienced, She's owner-built twice before, acting as
the general contractor.
But those two previous times taught her a lesson. Don't go off half
cocked. Get it in writing. Bide your time.
She gained tremendous equity on the first two homes, ($75,000 each) but
could have done more, if she had been more thorough. For instance, she
had a commitment from the concrete man to do her sidewalks at $900.
Later the bill came in for $1,500. She was told that the first number had
just been a guess. She didn't have it in writing, and couldn't do anything
about it.
Her linoleum had been estimated at $12.99 a square yard. She was sure
about it, and had it clear in her notes. But the bill came in at $12.99 a
square foot. She didn't have it in writing, and the woman who sold it to her
had moved on to a new job.
On the last house, she ordered plush carpet for the bedrooms, and
berber for high traffic areas. They came out and reversed it. It was a case
of Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong it will, and at the worst
possible moment."
Melissa says it's just better not to start until you have the T's crossed and
the I's dotted. She checked and found that lumber and wallboard were
three times as high as last time, and she decided to wait until next year.
"You need a couple of Valiums when you build", she says. "But we made
so much money." She'll break ground next year. And she'll be ready.
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