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Valubuild & Project Questions


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Mike's Forum Posts: 6
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By Mike in Willmar, MN on 9/20/2006


I have been reading this forum for several weeks - what a great resource!

My wife and I are looking at building in the next year or so. We like the idea of SIP building. We have a large family, so we are looking at doing a 1.5- or two-story home with a finished walkout. We have beautiful property that we are going to build on (water on two sides, a creek on the third, and acres of 100-year-old oaks behind the creek -- it is where I proposed to the Mrs.!). Anyway, we have found two plans that we really like. We sent them to Valubuild to get quotes on their kits based on each of our plans. We haven't heard back in that regard yet, but we did get a call from a VB salesman yesterday -- he gave a lot of information about their products, but also indicated he had a "unique" deal for us on one of their stock plans if we were interested. The story is that a contractor ordered 6 kits from them, paid the money down, but couldn't pay the remaining balance. As such, they are now offering the remaining kits for a discount in order to get rid of them. (Not sure I believe the story... but whatever).

What it comes down to is he could sell me a kit for their two-story Colonial with a garage for approx. 30% off the 'retail' price -- it boils down to 3,456 sq ft SIP house shell + 768 sq ft SIP garage shell for $13.38/sq. ft., delivered.

I am trying to figure out what $13.38 would mean in terms of the entire building project cost. We plan to O-B as much as we can -- and I also have access to very cheap (but knowledgeable) labor (relatives!). 

One concern I have is that the stock plan they are offering seems very "vanilla", perhaps too "rectangular". I think we would generally be stuck with 8-ft. ceilings. Perhaps there are things we could do to "spruce" up the appearance, but one of the things we really like about the plans we have picked on our own is the 'character' offered. I would not move ahead with the stock plan unless I was comfortable that we could make it look really nice -- we don't want to just stick a 'box' on this beautiful piece of land.

Another concern I have is with Valubuild itself. In reading this forum (and other internet sites), I get a general negative sense about the company. I see references to 'horrible' experiences, but I have a hard time finding specifics. I have even seen reference to a website that is supposed to explain one person's horrible experience, but the site isn't available any more. 

In talking with the salesman, I did get a sense of some 'high pressure' tactics, but he was very cordial the entire time. He clearly tried to create a sense of urgency related to this 'unique' deal that was available.

Can anybody give me insight about the company -- I have looked at BBB information that I could find. There appear to be a number of complaints, but most of them seemed to be resolved. In my area of work, I know how easy it can be for disgruntled clients/customers to become jerks... but that doesn't always mean there aren't legitimate complaints though.

I guess I'm interested in feedback on my overall situation -- and on Valubuild specifically. I appreciate any insight!


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By Justin in Keystone Heights, FL on 9/21/2006


Mike, I am fairly new to the O-B site too. My wife and I will close Wednesday on a piece of property that we have been looking for for over four years. It sounds like you property has much more personal meaning to you and your wife, however. My father has always been a big proponent of "as long as you are spending that much money, you might as well get what you want." Whether you go with Valubuild or not, I believe you have a very special piece of property, and chances are that you only have one shot at building your "dream home" on it. Don't compromise to save a few bucks. Go ahead with the plan that you sent them (or find someone else to build it). I would not give the same advice if you were going to sell after a couple of years.
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By Mike in Willmar, MN on 9/21/2006


Justin, thanks for your comments. As I have pondered this, I have to agree with you 100%. This is essentially a one-shot opportunity (i.e., do it the right way the first time). I am only four years into my professional career, so I am just starting to climb the "income curve". As such, making this all happen the way it should is likely going to stretch things a bit (hence the interest in O-B'ing the project). But the sacrifice now will not seem very significant after 10, 20, 30+ years of enjoyment.

It is interesting how things come full circle. The property we are building on was purchased by my father 32 years ago. He purchased a total of 50 acres. Going into the transaction, he was thinking of only buying half of it. He was in much the same position I am in now -- he was a young professional with a young family.  He didn't want to purchase the other half because he was concerned about the extra $50/month it was going to cost him. His Realtor at the time sat him down and told him that another party was looking at the extra land and was considering putting in a trailer park. Whether that is true or not, my father found a way to come up with the extra $50. I need to keep that perspective as I figure out the financial portion of this "journey". What may seem like a bit of a stretch now likely will be insignificant in the very near future.

Valubuild did come back with numbers for us on our own plans. For our ultimate dream plan (3,975 sq ft panelized), we are at $18.65/sq ft delivered. For dream plan #2 (3,532 sq ft panelized), we are looking at $20.28/sq ft delivered. The numbers are actually not as high as I was anticipating.

I wish you the best of luck as you and your wife pursue your project! Post your progress from time to time!

If anyone wants to chime in specifically on Valubuild (or anything else in this thread), I sure would appreciate it!


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By Michael in Cave Creek, AZ on 9/21/2006


I would urge you to find three local framers and show them your plans. You may be able to get your entire shell erected for about $45K to $50K for 4,000 SF under roof, instead of just a bunch of panels dumped from the back of a flatbed. Even if the panels go up fast, you will still need to frame the roof and the interior walls. My costs for framing 4,150 SF under roof in Arizona were approximately as follows:

Lumber $13K + trusses $8K + $1K framing hardware (nails/hangers/etc) + $12K labor

If you insist on going the panelized route, find the three closest panelizing companies to your site and talk to them and let them bid your plans. These companies will probably have some of the biggest tract builders in your area as customers.

Combining design or drafting services and construction will always cost you money in the long run. If anyone has a one-time-only deal, RUN!!!


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By Brian in Dome-ville, FL on 9/21/2006


Hi, Justin! I am building in Johnson, near Interlachen and Hawthorne. What are you planning to do yourself on your house? What skills do you have? Would you be willing to trade labor? I'll help you, if you help me, kind of trade? What tools do you have and what do you need? Maybe we can share some of the bigger stuff. For instance I need a cement mixer but only one or two weekends a month, when I'm working on the house (but I won't need it until Dec/Jan or so). I have a brush mower for clearing, but I don't use it that often. If you're interested, let me know. My construction blog on this site is "The Hoskens Project".
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By Justin in Keystone Heights, FL on 9/22/2006


Brian, I am very sorry to say that my skills as an educator don't get me very far in building construction. Although I am posting on this O-B site, reality is that I will use a builder for my home. I do have a very good friend of the family that is a licensed electrician who has offered to wire the house, with my help. I can pull wires and be a general gopher, but beyond that I wouldn't be much help, sorry. Are you building on one of the lakes in the Johnson area? I have a friend that has a place on Vause Lake. I may take you up on the offer of the brush mower. It might work to help clear the waterfront.
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By George in Pomona, CA on 10/5/2006


I talked to them about five month ago. They gave me the same story about a contractor who dropped his deposit because he can't continue with the developments. I think the company is pushing some bad product.

 

 


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By Robert in Buffalo, NY on 10/8/2006


Mike,

After giving down payments totaling over $15,000 to Valubuild they demanded I sign a new contract reflecting a price increase over $17,000. They could not give a good reason to substantiate such a sgnificant increase in price. According to other sources OSB price had decreased since the time I signed the contract.

Furthermore the construction loan would not allow for this.They refused to refund any of my money. This sent my project into a tailspin and me into financial ruin.

I ended up getting the materials from Thermal Foams located in Buffalo, NY.

I highly recommend Thermal Foams to anyone considering SIPS or any of their other products. The gentleman I contacted was Kevin. He was a builder for many years. The drawings have the panels numbered so that a novice can install them. They also supplied on site support. Herb was great. He was always available and very helpful. All of this for a price less than Valubuild.

Bob


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By Mike in San Diego, CA on 10/18/2006


Mike,

I am going to make a few comments to your email. First, congratulations on building your dream house! What an exciting idea! Second buy some Excedrin, Tylenol or whatever makes your head feel better after endless hours of dealing with people who probably will not care as much about building your house as you do. Third, after reading your story above about the Valubuild company, it sounds to me like a great deal, in fact it sounds like a deal of a lifetime, almost too good to be true. Hmm, maybe I would have a couple of friends call up and see if they could buy the same house and get the same deal, or perhaps several deals, in fact if I am a contractor I will take all of these incredible deals, or would I?

What exactly is a kit, anyway? If I want to change the floor plan does it cost more? In the world of construction I would venture a good guess that there is no such thing as a kit dream house, especially seeing as how most local towns, cities and counties have codes that restrict exactly what you can build and where on this wonderful peace of paradise that you own. Let me think about this, OK, yup, it starts with a survey; hopefully you have a current one. If not you might want to call a local survey company and find out if you can strike a deal to get one done. OK, next I would say geotechnical, but this means nothing to most of us without the knowledge of soil, and why is it important that we know how much pressure it can withstand anyway? Get one done. 

If this doesn't sound confusing then the next step will be a breeze. I didn't catch where you’re building, nor does it matter. In the wonderful USA we have building departments. Most building department have laws that restrict and prevent your everyday citizen from doing things that may not benefit themselves or their loved ones, such as building a house without a permit. Curious? Good, what does it take to get a permit where you live? I would suggest you call your local building department and find out. Perhaps a registered engineer will do, or maybe a registered architect. Either way, these people are the ones whom you should contact before dealing with any company claiming to have great prices about building your dream house. Or maybe you just take a chance because you think you have what it takes to do it yourself. May the force be with you, young Jedi, as well as your wallet?

So you have decided not to take the fork in the road, nor the beaten path, forget about the cumbersome step of doing some research, "After all, I have lived here my whole life". Or, "I have just moved here, and there is no such thing as restrictions on what I build." FANTASTIC! If you have walked into this paradise please call me! Questions about building with SIP, #1 before you begin, read the fine print. #2 Read The Fine Print #3 READ THE FINE PRINT. Ask yourself; what does this mean? Ask someone else, what does this mean? Ask a representative, contractor, plumber, electrician, mechanical (A/C heat?) architect, engineer, what does this mean?

Will my dream house really look like this? Is this really what I want my dream house to look like?  cost? Cost? COST? Hmmm. 

I wish you well my friend, and congrats again.

Truly.


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By Patti and Jay in Uncertain, TX on 10/19/2006


Mike, I was searching for info on SIPs on the Web and asked for information on Valubuild, too. The next day, I got the phone call from the salesman... who offered me  the spiel about the "6 packages" that he offered you. Only two are left, he said, and, like a used car salesman, he said he needed to ask his manager about them. He came to me with two packages (amazingly, just the sizes I was interested in) at $10K less than their website prices. Now, I don't buy anything without some research, and I remembered something about Valubuild on the O-B website, so I looked, and there you were. I think I'll keep looking. This just feels bad to me. I hate pressure. That said, I still think SIP is the way to go, since you can't find anyone here in deep East Texas to build anything other than stick or an occasional metal frame. We're looking for fiber-cement SIP, however. 


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By Darrell in Seattle, WA on 12/2/2008


I am the proud owner of a Valubuild SIP home. I believe I have the best home money can buy, but I must emphasize that the Valubuild SIP home, or any SIP home for that matter is not a "Do it Yourself" project.

First, the day your SIP panels arrive, you realize that you have taken on a very huge project. Expect a half a day to unload the panels and be sure to get a very big forklift with boom that will extend a good distance. Good luck to you going over the inventory list so that you can sign off to the delivery driver. It took a lot of time just getting the SIPs off of the truck and finding a place to put the SIPs. Don't forget about the next truck arriving that will have your lumber package. We were lucky in that the driver with the lumber package stayed overnight on a Sunday so we received the lumber early on Monday morning with time to spare.

Valubuild uses a very good company in Idaho for their lumber package. I was very impressed with the quality of the lumber and the customer service of their lumber supplier is first rate and even helped us with engineering loads. You must understand that the SIPs cannot be loaded in order at the factory so you will need to spend another day arranging the SIPs panels in the locations and order of installation. By this time you will realize that the SIP home does not go up in 3 - 4 days as quoted by many SIP companies.

Now, if you have your foundation poured and it was poured perfect, then you will now set up your sill plates to be as close to perfect as possible to accommodate easier construction of the SIPs. By this time we realized the importance of having a very good carpenter on board with us to ensure the critical first step be done correctly. We lost our first carpenter as he was not familiar with SIPs and did not want to get involved. We found him at a friend's construction site and found that he was quite quick and very good quality. He was a bit demoralized when he saw the scope of the project and quite frankly had worked with traditional framing his entire career and felt out of place with SIP construction. He visited our site for a couple of weeks during actual SIP construction and joked with our current carpenter on how long the project was taking and that if we had used traditional framing the project would be done by now.

Of course I'm saving time on not having to insulate the building, but not a big deal as we have insulation companies here that are in and out in a day and charge about what the insulation costs if you were to buy it at Home Depot. Again, I am fond of the higher R-values of SIPs and again am very happy with my solid, well-built Valubuild home. Our current carpenter is well accomplished and a very "nose to the grindstone" kind of guy who makes no excuses. I find that we are very lucky to have him, as the other carpenters in the area who frequent our SIP project just scratch their heads on what we are doing. It's ironic that I chose a SIP home to try to eliminate expensive carpenter labor and do it myself with a few friends like all the SIP videos and books show. After the first day on the job with friends, you quickly realize that this is going to be a very long job and that you are not going to do it correctly.

Unfortunately, you only realize all the mistakes you would have made when your carpenter goes to work. They do this every day and know all the tricks of the trade. You also learn that they are unable to use many of their tricks on the fabricated SIPs panels. By the way, we had our panels cut at the factory to save time in the field, which it did, but left us with fewer options in the field to make modifications that will always be a part of your project.

After a few days of building, and depending on the weather and season, you realize that this is going to be a long project and that you now must prepare your SIPs to be protected for the long haul. I went out and bought about $200 in tarps and other hardware to keep my SIP investment dry and off of the ground. I got my first full night of sleep that night at least knowing that my SIPs would be protected. I am lucky to be building in a very small community that is pretty safe from theft. My biggest worry was someone stealing one of the SIP panels. Several people talked about how fun they would be to take out into the lake for a boat or pier platform. Horrible thought when you think about the cost of an 8'x10' SIP - about $150 each and having to order, and wait for delivery could really slow down your project. We live near the SIP factory so we are able to go down there and pick one up.

Along those lines, if you cut your own SIPs, don't mess up beyond the two extra panels they give you for mistakes. Of course you can always work in some traditional framing, like we did so that the project can keep moving along! It is a bit sad to do this and defeat the airtight SIP and high insulation value, but it cost a lot more to have men on site sitting around. I must emphasize that you really don't see that many SIPs home if any. I have only seen them in books, or on the Internet. WHY? Why don't SIPs take over the building industry?

All I can say is that it takes your carpenter about a week to figure them out and by that time they realize that this is not an efficient system by any means and all that they have learned is useless going forward. Again, I bought a SIP home to eliminate expensive professional help and find the ultimate system for the do it yourself builder. Straw bale, log home, timberframe, etc. etc. did not seem to fit the bill, but the SIP home seemed to finally be the ultimate do it yourself system. I now see that I was very wrong in this thought.

Along the lines of SIPs bucking the traditional system of a stick-built house, you must realize that your local building authorities are not used to these systems, and you will have to jump through many additional hoops to get your SIP home approved. First, if our home was a stick-built home then we would have received our permit right away. However, our county in Washington State required that all SIPs homes get the stamp of a structural engineer. The month that it took to get this stamp delayed our project by one year as we missed our building season out of the rain. It also cost us another $1,500 for the stamp.

Now, you must realize that the engineer is responsible for your SIP home from not collapsing on you, so I believe he or she is going to over-engineer your design to handle the loads. For example, I have never seen a 6"x6" column used in the construction of SIPs homes. Well, our small 1,200 sq. ft. home uses a total of 16 of them and a few are over 20' in height. I must emphasize that our home is custom and such columns are needed, but still this is something I did not anticipate with SIP construction and it has slowed down our project quite a bit.

Again, I am very happy with my Valubuild SIP home and know for a fact that it is the strongest, quietest, and best-built home in the area. I just want to emphasize that this is not a do it yourself project and that you will have a hard time finding a carpenter to help with the project. I have also found that this construction is the one of the most expensive type of systems out there and is difficult to modify in the field. I know that there are many builders out there that build exclusively in SIPs and these are the people you should talk with first before you purchase an SIP kit. Get a quote from them in writing on what the cost will be to build your SIP kit and see how much you will save. Perhaps you will find as I did that you will spend more on this type of construction, but in the end will receive a better-built home.

As we complete the first floor of our home I am feeling less overwhelmed thanks to our rock-solid carpenter who took on the SIP project and now I am on to thinking about eliminating the off-gassing of all of the chipboard OSB plywood that lines the interior of an SIP home. This will be an additional cost, but in the tradition of a SIP home, I should enjoy a higher level of air quality once I install a proper heating system that allows air exchanges within the building envelope. I am also realizing that I now own the building of the future that is quite green and will save a lot of money in heating and cooling bills. I will never forget, however that in no way is an SIP home a do it yourself system that goes up in few days with a few unskilled friends. I have three remodeled homes under my belt and am quite skilled, but found myself overwhelmed from the moment the SIPs arrived.
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By Darrell in Seattle, WA on 12/2/2008


Valubuild buys their SIP panels from a couple of companies... they do not make them. What Valubuild does is make you think that YOU can build the home yourself. I was told by a Valubuild person that he could almost build one of the homes by himself. This is just 100% wrong. We had a very strong and skilled carpenter on staff and the project completely demoralized him. It took three of us to effectively carry and place the SIP panels. We all started to believe we were a bunch of complete idiots as the three day SIP home project turned into several months. We were the laughingstock of the neighborhood and of other carpenters and builders.

Thank God I talked with several folks at Premier Panel, the manufacturer of panels for Valubuild and other companies. They told me that SIP building is very difficult and takes longer than stick building unless of course you are an expert SIP builder. In that case you can build these homes very quickly. Again, if you are not an expert you will run into huge costs overruns. In addition, you will need to live in a safe area so that kids do not steal or set fire to your SIP panels that will take up every square inch of your building site. When it starts to rain, you will run to the store to buy $200. worth of tarps and plastic to protect your investment.

My Valubuild SIP home is a very strong and good product, however Valubuild is very dishonest in the way they sell these homes. They make you think that ANYONE can put one of these up. In their latest video they show three unskilled women on the job site carrying building materials. "Look at that, Honey, we can build it ourselves" is what most viewers of the video say to themselves. If you want an SIP home, go to Premier Panel directly in Tacoma, Washington. I believe they are in Fife, Washington which is just a few miles from Tacoma.

Once you have spent weeks or months building this system, plan to spend quite a bit of extra time trying to wire and add plumbing. It is very difficult, and again you will spend tons of extra money on these contractors. Again, I built a Valubuild home and am impressed with the quality, however this system is only for professional SIP builders with lots of labor and large cranes to move the panels in an efficient manner. Unless you want to spend a lot to have one built, stay away from this system. It is not a do it yourself system.
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By Darrell in Seattle, WA on 12/2/2008


I wanted to stick it to the carpenters in the area and build my Valubuild SIP home for next to nothing and in only a few days. I was very wrong about this and paid dearly! We had huge labor cost overruns and in the end the $34,000 I paid for the kit was much more than the figures you mentioned for conventional.

I must say that I had to give moral support to the carpenter I hired and had to stay on the job with him for three months. This cost me dearly as I am self-employed and lost valuable working time away from my business. If I had done this with traditional framing then I would have visited the site from time to time to check in and answer questions. With the SIPs I was the only one who knew the system and even with four years of looking at my project I found I knew nothing once I started to put them up. Very simple - hire an expensive pro SIP builder if you must have an SIP home.
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By Darrell in Seattle, WA on 12/2/2008


One last post. I must say that I was suckered in to the Valubuild system when they also offered to give me the kit at 30% off. They said a major builder in the USA dropped a large project and they were left with a huge inventory of SIP panels "...that the Valubuild President wanted to get rid of." I would love to start a class action law suit against Valubuild if I can find enough people out there who were told this lie. I don't believe you can sue over such a statement, but would love to hear what others have heard. Again, thank God I was able to meet with the Premier Panel people in Washington. They are just the very best in the SIP industry and will tell you the complete truth about building with SIPs.
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By Robert in Buffalo, NY on 12/13/2008


Mike,

My experience with Valubuild was an absolute nightmare. I got the same sales pitch you did and that was a few years ago. That should tell you something. After they got my down payment of $10,000 they informed me of a price increase of $17,000. What a coincidence! I ended up losing $15,000 and having to go to another supplier. Thermofoam in Buffalo, NY were fantastic. They even provided on-site support as well as a far superior product. Good luck!!

Robert

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