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Panelized quote?


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Mary Beth's Forum Posts: 37
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By Mary Beth in Dublin, OH on 9/19/2007


I just received my quote back from a panelized company. Our house is approximately 6,400 sq ft above ground.  The quote for panels at 131K. The addendum for windows and exterior doors and OSB is 35K. Since I haven't received a take off of my home with a lumber company can anyone give me a quick reference for these numbers? Obviously, this does not include labor -- only delivery. This puts the price per sq ft around 30 dollars. I think...
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By Michael in Cave Creek, AZ on 9/19/2007


2005 numbers for 4,150 SF under roof in Arizona.

Lumber Package 13K

Trusses 8 K

Framing Hardware 1K

Windows 30+  for 4K

Doors (interior & exterior) 11K

Framing Crew Labor <$20K

Lumber prices are down since then, especially OSB. Was about #16 per sheet now OSB is $6 to $ 8 per sheet.

Delivery from the lumber yard was FREE. You can stick frame a shell of your size for less than the cost of a panelized package using a local framing contractor. Good luck with your project.

 

 

 


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By Mary Beth in Dublin, OH on 9/19/2007


Michael,

Looks like that was a pretty sweet package! Was that stick built or paneled?  The rep at the panelized company says that if we rework some of the truss engineering it will change the spans which should decrease some of the price. My price for windows alone is 33K (for Anderson 400 windows). I just don't know how much of it we can bring down. I expect the total cost of the house without land to be about 700K. I have a GC that is willing to do fixed cost at 75K for this project. I can use any subs I want except for his framing crew. It would be more owner/completion instead of owner-build. It works out to be about 10-11% on top of costs. Does that sound like a decent prop? I would LOVE to O-B myself but the further along I get with this project I just don't think I have the capacity (with 6 kids!) to go this totally alone. This GC is agreeing to let me be the final authority on everything and still help me with my budget control, prepping and selling of my current home plus use of his wife for designing. I'm torn. I really want to save all the money that I can, but 75K may buy off a lot of headaches!

Mary  Beth


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By Michael in Cave Creek, AZ on 9/20/2007


Mary Beth,

My house was stick built. I took my own lumber takeoff from the drawings, and took the list to three lumber yards. Two quoted me. One lumber yard did not want to bother with only one house. I picked the low price and double checked against HD. HD was less on the materials they actually had by a few cents, but they would have added delivery charges and did not have all of the required materials on-hand. I was a little stingy on my quantities so we had to have a few extra loads of lumber brought out. One call to the lumberyard took care of it.

Anderson windows are nice and expensive. If they are important to the design you want to achieve, go for it! If you just need to keep the inside air in and the outside air out, you can get double paned low-E windows with a metal or vinyl frame for about 15% of the Anderson price. Just look up window wholesalers who cater to your local mid-size contractors and bring them your window schedule from your plans. You will be pleasantly surprised by the price -- but you will loose the style of the Anderson window.

Whether to O-B or owner complete  a G-C built shell is a difficult personal decision. I personally like to O-B, but my background has included many remodels, and three houses now.  My approach is to supervise a lot of weekend workers myself and do most of the work that falls between the trades. I will also take on an occasional trade if I have difficulty finding anyone to do it. I won't do concrete, drywall or stucco, but any other trade is fair game in my book.  My current remodel project will be the first project, where I am doing my own HVAC!  I always make sure that I have two to three helpers so that I can work at an acceptable pace -- since self work is worthless if it holds up the job and stretches completion beyond 5 to 7 months.

My neighbor, a school teacher with no construction experience and 4 kids, did an O-B of her house next door to mine. She hired sub contractors for everything and day labor handle the work between the trades. The house got built but took nearly a year and had a 15% cost overrun, and a few fairly obvious uncompleted items. A bit of contingency in the budget and a good site supervisor would have gone a long way to making her job run smoother.

If you are motivated to O-B, have good organizational skills.  are willing to educate yourself you will do fine. Remember to hire out anything you can't do, don't have the time to do, or skill to do. You will need to find these people through visits to job sites, supply houses or references from other trades people working on your job. The Yellow Pages and the newspaper are not useful for finding the right people. 

If you don't want to or can't spend the time, go with the GC. A good GC's fee will save you a lot of site visits and time. A lot of tradespeople need access to a decision maker constantly for incredibly minor details and sometimes significant clarifications on the plans.  I received a phone call from the excavator asking if the elevation of the foundation was surveyed correctly. It turned out to be two feet too low and below the high water line of the wash on the property.  If you decide to hire a GC agree what he is to do in the beginning and let him work. Be decisive and minimize changes after construction starts. If you want to make changes listen to your GC when he says whether a change is difficult or not. 

Does owner completion of a dried-in shell make sense?  Will you buy your own materials? Will you paint? Install your own electrical outlets, switches and trim? Interior doors?, Flooring? Cabinets? Countertops? Plumbing fixtures? Tile? Closet poles? Bath hardware? Appliances? If the answer to many of these is yes, owner completion makes a lot of sense.

Hope this helps. Best wishes with your project regardless of your chosen path.

 


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By Brian in Dexter, MI on 10/10/2007


Our cost was about $13K for lumber and panelized walls, 10K for floor trusses and LVLs (two stories), 7K for roof trusses, and 16K for framing. Total finished SQ/FT with the basement is about 7000, plus another 500 in under-roof decks. My exterior walls are ICF so that did reduce this cost a little bit, but honestly not by much because it added more complexity.

I can't imagine the price you are seeing unless they are SIP panels. The actual panel costs for my house in materials and labor were about $3K. It sounds like you need to hire an independent structural engineer to help you change your plans to make things more efficient. Adding LVLs can greatly change the costs for trusses and spans.

I don't think $75K is a good deal for a GC when he also wants you to pay him for framing too. For $75K, he should be there every day working for you independently, not getting paid twice by also being paid to frame your house. Around here, builders make $75K in profit on a house that size and they take on much more risk.

IMO you should also look at other windows. I looked at Anderson first and got a quote of $28K, but ended up going with triple-pane northstar windows that were much more efficient and cost only $13K for 37 windows.


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By Mary Beth in Dublin, OH on 10/13/2007


You say the actual panel costs for your home for materials and labor was about 3K? Is that the right number? That seems awfully low.

As far as the GC for 75K, he is actually taking on the role of  pretty much a full GC....being there everyday, always on call, liability issues etc....I also had a fixed cost full service GC give me a quote that made the sq/ft price a little under $100 a sq/ft. This included basement and up roughly 8700 sq ft. $100 sounds pretty fair to me and I don't think his take is going to be much more than the 75K the other is offering. However, I really want more of a "co-equal" partnership and the fixed fee guy would more likely offer that. I do think I may have enough numbers to go back to the fixed fee guy and tell him that since I am doing so much of the bid and interviewing legwork he should reduce his fee. I think 8-9% is more in line. I feel as though I have more of an opportunity to control costs as they come up with the fixed fee GC, but then again I don't have a written guarantee of a final price either, which makes me a bit nervous. He wants 15K up front when I sign a contract before we start getting the estimating. My fear is that the estimating will come in so high that I will not want to proceed with the project and will be out a quick 15K. Ugh... that's my nightmare anyway... I have one more GC giving me a bid this week that is an ICF builder. I'm anxious to see what he comes up with, too.

I'll look into the other options on windows. Thanks.

Mary Beth


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