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The Owner-Builder Book | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 376 comments | Starting at #50" | Search Discussion
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1 | (2) (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
Anything like this for renovations? (Score:1)
by dougayen on Wednesday June 19, @12:00PM (#3729608)
(User #30976 Info)
I'll probably pick this up anyway, but I was wondering if anyone knew of a similar book for people looking to renovate their homes instead of building a new one.

Thanks.

--doug
[ Parent ]
Jeff Lewis: Major home improvements too? (Score:1)
by jolshefsky on Wednesday June 19, @12:23PM (#3729762)
(User #560014 Info | http://jayceland.com/)
I was wondering if this book could be used in any significant way toward major home improvements. I want to get some big things done at my house like vinyl siding and buried cabling, but I can't seem to bring myself to try to find someone to do the work for fear that I can't tell that I'm getting scammed _before_ the fact. Would it be worth it to buy the book or is the pertinent stuff just a few paragraphs? Thanks.
[ Parent ]
    Re:Jeff Lewis: Major home improvements too? (Score:1)
    by jdevons on Wednesday June 19, @01:54PM (#3730583)
    (User #233314 Info | http://consultutah.com/)
    Actually it does deal with improvements, though this is not the main purpose of the book.

    [ Parent ]
    Re:Jeff Lewis: Major home improvements too? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @04:22PM (#3731756)
    If you can climb a ladder, you can install vinyl siding. I don't know if instructions are available, but you don't need them. You can surely figure it out for yourself.

    If you don't mind digging ditches, you can bury cables. If you're talking about power cables, get a copy of the current national electrical code, and follow its advice to the letter. You MUST buy cable rated for direct burial.

    Remember that most folks in the building trades are closer to Homer Simpson than Albert Einstein. Doing it fast with a hangover might be beyond you the first time you try it, but doing it right after a little thought is well within the capacity of most normal folks for most construction trades. Finish carpentry is harder than most trades, since appearance really matters, but it's still doable.
    [ Parent ]
phone in bedroom (Score:1)
by krabbe (krabbe@gmx.net) on Wednesday June 19, @12:55PM (#3730039)
(User #239203 Info)
[...] home that did not even have phone lines in two of the three bedrooms
Uh? That was irony wasn't it? Over here in Europe it's not common to have a phone in your bedroom - there's usually only one phone in the house (and a few mobile phones of course).
[ Parent ]
    Re:phone in bedroom (Score:1)
    by bluGill on Thursday June 20, @02:48PM (#3737945)
    (User #862 Info | http://www.black-hole.com/users/henrymiller/)

    Yeah, your backwords land line phone system is what drives your cell phone market to be better than ours in the US. We have better (it still sucks though) land service in that phone extentions in the bedrooms is normal. However because of that, we don't use cell phones as much. Of course population density is also an issue. (hard to compare apples here, but in the same area Eurpoe has twice as many people)

    [ Parent ]
Read "House" by Tracy Kidder, (Score:1)
by owlmeat on Wednesday June 19, @01:00PM (#3730087)
(User #197799 Info)
Author of "Soul of a New Machine" It's a tense 300 page read about custom homes from the builder's point of view. An excellent read, review here: http://architecture.about.com/library/weekly/aafpr house.htm
[ Parent ]
We contracted/built our own house (Score:1)
by dwcasey on Wednesday June 19, @01:23PM (#3730275)
(User #579461 Info)
My wife and I contracted our own house. We also did some of the work ourselves. We hung the cement siding, installed insulation, painted, laid the wood floor and tile. I ran a tractor to do the landscaping. We also ran CAT5 behind the electrician so all the rooms are "wired".

That's most of the stuff we thought we could reasonably do ourselves and save a few extra dollars. We would probably pass up on hanging the siding ourselves the next go around.

And we had some of the same stories as mentioned in the story. We got five bids for the HVAC (Heat,Vent,A/C). They ranged from $4,500 up to $7,800. Plumbing, we had bids from around $4,000 to over $10,000. We took the low plumbing bid, added a couple of extras (bigger jacuzzi tub) and still came in less than $6,000. Do you always take the lowest bid? No. Check the guy out, look at his/her other work. Ask for references. The subs are working for you!

Yes, we saved some money, but it was a lot of work and it took a lot of our time. My job at the time allowed me to have a more flexible schedule, today, it doesn't.

Even with my flexible schedule, we would be out working on the house until midnight three to four days out of the week.

Was it worth it to do some of the work ourselves? For us, yes. Reason being is that if the flooring, paint, or anything else we did is screwed up, it's our own fault and not some contractor. Some people may not understand, but I would rather look at a piece of tile that's not straight and tell myself that I'll have to do better next time than to wish I shouldn't have given some contractor a check for $3,000 for laying that same tile.

But as I said and others have said, it takes a lot of time and confidence in your abilities to deal with people who may be on the other end of social-economic spectrum. Even if you don't do any of the work yourself, it still takes some and causes plenty of headaches.

Oh yeah, if you don't have a truck, buy one! It doesn't have to be expensive. Actually, it's better if it's not expensive, just some old junker that runs.
[ Parent ]
    Re:We contracted/built our own house (Score:2)
    by Overzeetop on Wednesday June 19, @02:32PM (#3730831)
    (User #214511 Info)
    You speak the truth. Saving money or not, if you've got an area you did yourself, and you did a good job, it pays dividends in pride.

    You can get away without a truck if you've got a car which can tow 1000lbs (most can). For about $200 or $250, plus $100 in lumber and an afternoon of cursing the assembly manual, Harbor Freight sells a 4'x8' trailer kit that will hold 1120 lbs (?) of stuff. Anything that's too big to put in my trailer tends to be worth paying $30 to have delivered by HD/Lowes.
    [ Parent ]
      Re:We contracted/built our own house (Score:1)
      by dwcasey on Wednesday June 19, @02:38PM (#3730887)
      (User #579461 Info)
      My brother and his wife are finishing up their house and he has an old (mid 80's) Oldsmobile with a hitch that he has used many times. Last weekend we rented a trencher and he was able to pull it around with the old Olds.
      [ Parent ]
    Re:We contracted/built our own house (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @03:30PM (#3731345)
    Then there is the pride of coming home everyday, looking around, and saying "I did this" Not by writing a check, but with my own two hands.

    To me, that's worth alot more then what I saved in building our home. And I saved alot.
    [ Parent ]
Work part-time or hire a professional (Score:1)
by whoppers on Wednesday June 19, @01:25PM (#3730292)
(User #307299 Info)
I'm a professional contractor in commercial/industrial construction. My dream is to someday build a home for my family, but my wife won't have anything to do with this based on how much time this will take away from my career and family. If I build a great garage first, then she'll reconsider, but I'll have to manage my time much better than I am now.
[ Parent ]
Make sure you have a non-slip mat in there (Score:1)
by zendeath (zendeath AT vmunix DOT net) on Wednesday June 19, @02:44PM (#3730939)
(User #517353 Info | http://vmunix.net/)
Now I love that TV above Jacuzzi tub.

I wonder what happens if the TV falls *in* the Jacuzzi.

All that money you saved goes down the drain.

[ Parent ]
My House Is On the Internet (Score:1)
by RAMMS+EIN on Wednesday June 19, @03:04PM (#3731137)
(User #578166 Info | http://www.inglorion.net/)
Give me a Linux-box and a decent connection, that's all I need.
[ Parent ]
hmmm..... (Score:1)
by Mr. White (chrabasz@NOSPAMgwu.edu) on Wednesday June 19, @03:14PM (#3731232)
(User #22990 Info | http://www.witold.org)

After reading this:
"Not necessarily: for $5,000 I got everything that I wanted, plus I was able to add a bunch of outlets that I hadn't thought of at the last minute for free cause the subcontractor was a nice guy. Now I love that TV above Jacuzzi tub. "

I think I found the fatal flaw to designing and building your own house.

Witold
www.witold.org
[ Parent ]
Dump the contracter...and the architect. (Score:1)
by sbaker on Wednesday June 19, @03:36PM (#3731380)
(User #47485 Info | http:/www.sjbaker.org)
I designed my house on my PC using a regular CAD package - then wrote some custom 3D visualisers so I could show my wife (who doesn't "grok" 2D plans). I make models of all our furniture and placed them in-situ to verify that everything would fit and not block walkways or anything like that.

We were advised to use a professional architect to turn my plans into something that wouldn't fall down and would meet code. He charged us a small fortune to redraw my plans from scratch, and did very little to them apart from introducing some spelling errors.

The details of construction methods that the architect added to my plans were *ignored* by the contractor - the direction that floor joists run and where the air conditioning ducts go bears *no* resemblance to the plans. We carefully worked out where all the light switches, electrical outlets, phones and 10baseT's would go - and they were right there on all the plans...But on the day the electrician appeared, he just asked us to go round and mark where we wanted things with a spray can - he didn't even *want* a set of plans!

The contractor was similarly a waste of money. I visited the building site daily...sometimes twice daily - and measured *everything* they did. Despite that, two subtle dimensional errors crept in - one of which completely fsck'ed up my ergonomic kitchen layout by forcing me to put the refrigerator somewhere other than where I wanted it. We hadn't noticed until the day we moved in and by then it was far to late to do anything about it. An error of just a couple of inches is enough to do that - so CHECK EVERYTHING CAREFULLY!!

We went with a fixed price contract - which was a good idea because it prevented him from screwing us for every little problem - however it also resulted in some running battles.

Take for example, the driveway. We wanted it to be flat along one section and slope upwards a little later because we knew that in the future, we'd want an extra parking place next to the flat part. However, to do that required moving a lot of dirt - and the plans didn't show where the driveway sloped. The contractor argued that his contract didn't require him to move the dirt - and it would cost us money we didn't have to change that.

So now we have a sloping parking place. (Grrrr!)

On the whole though, the process was rather enjoyable - and our house is pretty damned amazing for the money we paid.

Next time (surely a *LONG* way off!) I'll dump the contractor and the architect. I don't think I could do better than they did - but I think that an intelligent person will do no worse so you might as well save the money and use it to pay for any little mistakes you might happen to make.
[ Parent ]
The truth about this book and news about Greg Bear (Score:1)
by Nintendork on Wednesday June 19, @03:48PM (#3731497)
(User #411169 Info | http://www.nintendorks.com/)
Read the user reviews on Amazon. It seems to be closely related to the Get Rich Quick crap, although not as useless. Here's the most interesting review on Amazon.

The main part of this book contains some useful information and some helpful hints for owner-builders. However, beware a major problem that nearly destroyed the reading experience for me. The writing goes until page 272. But the book contains 314 pages. So what do pages 272-314 contain? Look at the cover of the book, where it says "Valuable Coupons Inside! $100 Value". Most of the 42 pages contain full-page ads for the author's seminars, audiotapes, workshops and special reports. To see this for yourself, go to the "Look Inside" feature (click on book picture) and look at the last page of the table of contents. I found these ads irritating, because although this is supposedly a reference book in and of itself, it asks you to shell out $6.00-$99.00 each item for more information. Excuse me, but shouldn't information like "Staying on Schedule" be included in the "Owner-Builder" book? The author offers the explanation that he couldn't "fit" all of this info into the book. He sure didn't have a problem tacking on 42 extra pages of shameless bids for more money. Get a book that doesn't reach into your wallet, like the excellent "Complete Guide to Contracting Your Home".

Also, I'd like to make use of this post to make everyone aware that Greg Bear's books Forge of God and Anvil of Stars are going to be part of a motion picture trilogy. The news just hit today and can be seen at his web site, www.gregbear.com
[ Parent ]
A matter of statistics (Score:1)
by tchdab1 on Wednesday June 19, @03:58PM (#3731587)
(User #164848 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
It's possible, reading the intro, that the incident in question happened a long time ago, and the $20,000 difference between the 1500 SF house and the 4400 SF house was actually 2x the cost of the small house!

The cost of accuracy is eternal vigilance.

DB
[ Parent ]
architect (Score:1)
by ikeleib (ikeleib(foo)mail(bar)utexas(baz)edu) on Wednesday June 19, @04:32PM (#3731830)
(User #125180 Info | http://www.cerc.utexas.edu/~ike)
Hire an architect. Like builders, programmers, and everything else, there are good ones and not so good ones. A good one will pay of in spades. An architect will be aware of things that you are not. Sure, you have an idea of what works for you and doesn't. But, an architect has the benefit of years of study on the matter. Architects use many critera of design, and one of them is cost. If you can afford to build your own, you can afford an architect. A good architect will keep costs (including their fee) in line with you constraints. Furthermore, good design pays in spades. It not only increases the asthetic of your building, and the usability, but good design consistantly has a higher appreciation and sell price than run-of-the-mill. Remember, the builder is using the same techniques and basic design all over the country. There is no accomidation for local climate, materials, etc.
[ Parent ]
Comparing Architecture to Programming (Score:1)
by WallyHartshorn (wally.hartshorn@pobox.com) on Wednesday June 19, @04:38PM (#3731883)
(User #64268 Info | http://www.skepticnews.com/)
Once upon a time, I read a fictional letter from someone to the architect designing their house. It was written to show the way users request features from software developers (e.g. "I'm not sure how many floors I want the house to have, so come up with a design that will work just as well for a one-story house as for a four-story mansion. I do not expect to be charged extra for this.") I thought it was hysterical and dead-on accurate. Does anyone know where I can find it? (No, I'm not talking about the woodpecker analogy.)
[ Parent ]
Show the Subs the Love (Score:1)
by vinn (vinn@REMOVETHIS.planetall.com) on Wednesday June 19, @05:07PM (#3732088)
(User #4370 Info | http://www.theshell.com/~vinn)


I've recently been going through the building process. I have a GC, but it's definitely a special case so can't recommend for or against having one. I can however tell you how to cut some corners to save yourself some big cash:

  • Having friends who specialize in different areas is really important. For instance, if you know someone who does drywall, have them subcontract that work and be their labor. Likewise, if you know a good trim carpenter beer and pizza will go a long way. Plus you'll get better materials and work.
  • Even if you don't personally know the subcontractor, offer him some cash on the side for "extras". Some of those little extras you'd like such as more electrical outlets or an extra gas line on the deck for a grill cost contractors little more than time. They might be willing to work a few extra hours on the side for it. In my case, I got half of my basement drywalled for free, the other two walls are so easy I'll do it myself after the CO.
  • Beer and pizza. Has anyone mentioned that? Go onsite at least once a week even if you have a GC. Especially when important things like trim work, plumbing, and carpeting are being done. Beer may not be appropriate, but taking lunch orders always is.
  • Wait until after the CO for anything you don't need right away. Chances are a building inspector will be a lot more lenient if there's not much to inspect. For instance, I want a storage space under the stairs. Temporarily it's being walled in, but later I'll cut some studs and hang a door. Also, I'm saving money by not putting a deck in right now. I have approved plans for one, after the CO I have a friend lined up to put it in - $300 + materials, that's $1000 less than what I'd pay right now.
  • Don't get bogged down in the details if it starts costing you money. I made some changes to the plans that cost me a few extra bucks, in retrospect they were worth it but had I done all the stuff I wanted I'd be hating life right now. The little extras cost a lot in the long run.

Extra credit is awarded if you know the building inspector. I don't but I can think of a few instances where it would have been invaluable.

[ Parent ]
New home owners info (Score:1)
by Iron Webmaster on Wednesday June 19, @06:09PM (#3732529)
(User #262826 Info)
Learning all there is to know about house pricing is easier than mastering a new C library. The problem is it is not all in one place.

A quick example is costing. If you have estimated the cost of development you know the concept. If a living room costs x dollars per square foot a kitchen will cost 4x/square and a bathroom 6x. (approximations only.) The reasons are obvious, a living room is empty space while kitchen and bath are not only smaller but filled with expensive equipment.

The consequences can be dramatic. A huge living room or master bedroom is relatively cheap compared to an extra bath. A bath with a double sink is a great improvement without the cost of an entire second bath. The half bath is not all that much savings.

Planning for a family later? An unfinished area, slab with a roof over it, is 0.5x and makes a fine workshop or place for the pool table while waiting.

A general rule is the neighborhood average sets the selling price. This highest cost house is pulled down and the lowest cost is pulled up. (Cost and price are different, remember) In most parts of the country adding a swimming pool lowers the price of a house no matter how much it cost. The more customized your house the harder it will be to find a buyer who wants your idea of customized.

A home is just a house. Never fall in love with a house. It is not permanent, it is not forever. Neighborhoods change. Newlyweds can do better buying under their potential and saving/investing the excess to buy a better home in a better neighborhood later when they have children and care about the schools and neighbors. This is particularly true if they can buy in a neighborhood being renovated for some reason.

Real estate agents make their money on turnover and satisfied clients. That doesn't mean blind trust in their opinion but they know the areas being renovated. Cars out of line with the price of the houses in a neighborhood is an excellent indicator. It is better to best in the second tier after the trend is set than a pioneer.

For people just starting out, home furnishings are priced to last for at least a decade. Do you really want a high priced, leather living room suite when in a few years your kids are going to be spilling food and drink, jumping and vomiting on it? Creative and Pier One go with affordable and replacable without going to brown bag lunches at the same time.

This year no one needs be reminded jobs are not forever, incomes do not rise forever or working in the same city is not forever. Keep that in mind when buying. And when things change consider turning the property into a rental rather than selling it. There are great tax advantages to doing so. Managing rental property is not for everyone, read up on it.

[ Parent ]
Fall Down (Score:0)
by JohnHegarty on Wednesday June 19, @11:03AM (#3729175)
(User #453016 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
I have to ask two questions:
1) How often do self built houses fall down
2) How much do you actually save... i persume most of the jobs would still have to be down by the pro's... or you would be refering to question 1.
[ Parent ]
    Re:Fall Down (Score:3, Informative)
    by jdevons on Wednesday June 19, @11:05AM (#3729192)
    (User #233314 Info | http://consultutah.com/)
    Average savings is 35%. As mentioned in the book [ownerbuilderbook.com].
    [ Parent ]
    Re:Fall Down (Score:3, Insightful)
    by joshsisk on Wednesday June 19, @11:09AM (#3729221)
    (User #161347 Info)
    1) Why would it fall down? It's not like you built it yourself, you just acted as your own contractor. The contractor doesn't build anything, they just hire the people who do.
    [ Parent ]
    Re:Fall Down (Score:2, Informative)
    by hexmem on Wednesday June 19, @11:35AM (#3729421)
    (User #97431 Info)
    My family is about 2 weeks away from finishing our home. We have built 90% of it ourselves. It is not as hard as most people think (but its not a walk in the park either!) We have saved over $100,000 by building it ourselves.

    If you build your own home you don't need to worry about it falling over, because that's what a building inspector is for. He makes sure you do everything right.
    [ Parent ]
      Not 'right' - 'According to Code' (Score:2)
      by bill_mcgonigle on Wednesday June 19, @11:51AM (#3729541)
      (User #4333 Info | http://www.zettabyte.net/)
      The job of the building inspector is to enforce the building code.

      Now, every few years they revise the building codes to say that you absolutely shouldn't do the crazy thing they recommended last year because it's faulty and dangerous. The best new building techniques are often not covered by the code so many building inspectors will reject them.

      Sure, some building inspectors are really good guys who care and they make allowances for the good engineering. However, often they're just there as an excuse for issuing building permits, which are, in turn, just notifications for levying taxes.

      The problem is you have no choice but to accept what the local building inspector says. You could hire the most qualified structural engineer in the world to approve your work, but if the building inspector is grumpy that day, it doesn't make a difference.

      When building inspectors are independent and licensed, then we'll have a reasonable system.
      [ Parent ]
      Haha. Inspectors are often failed contractors (Score:2)
      by Ars-Fartsica on Wednesday June 19, @12:31PM (#3729805)
      (User #166957 Info | http://slashdot.org/~Ars-Fartsica/journal/ | Last Journal: Saturday July 27, @01:36AM)
      Presuming that the home inspector will save your project is often as naive as thinking that amateurs can spot good subcontractors from bad.

      Most home inspectors are failed contractors. There is your industry insiders tip. They will not save your project.

      [ Parent ]
        Re:Haha. Inspectors are often failed contractors (Score:2)
        by captain_craptacular on Wednesday June 19, @02:13PM (#3730721)
        (User #580116 Info)
        You need to pick your building inspector more carefully. I'm building my own home right now (not contracting, building) and where I live there are independant inspectors you can hire to do your inspection. 3/4 of these inspectors are P.E.'s (Professional Engineers), I doubt they are as incompetent as you claim. In most cases the bank you got your construction loan through can help you out with finding good people. Remember, their stake in your project is usually bigger than yours (monetarily) so they want you to succeed.
        [ Parent ]
      Re:Fall Down (Score:1)
      by pivo on Wednesday June 19, @01:40PM (#3730448)
      (User #11957 Info)
      You'd be more informative if you mentioned how much you spent as well. Saving $100K is fine, but what percentage you saved is more interesting.
      [ Parent ]
    Re:Fall Down (Score:1)
    by BlankTim on Wednesday June 19, @11:42AM (#3729469)
    (User #241617 Info)
    Well, my first house is still standing, granted, it's only 4 years old, but it's on par with, and probably better than, the professionaly built homes in the neighborhood.
    Plus, it's the only one in that development, that I know of, that was wired for CAT 5 ;-)

    1800sq ft, total cost was $65,000.00US
    Appraisal value when we rolled the building loan into a mortagage was $117,000.00US and that's with an unfinished basement.

    Of course I lost the house in the divorce 2 years ago, but that's neither here nor there.

    If you've got the time to oversee the project, and get your hands a little dirty, building your own house is the best way to get a new home, espcially for the first time home buyer, like I was.

    It's a shame this book wasn't available when I built my house. Matter of fact, I saw very little that was related to this area at the book store.
    Hell, the way the blurp for the book talks, I could have built the whole place for $1.25 or so ;-)
    [ Parent ]
      Re:Fall Down (Score:1)
      by Theodrake on Wednesday June 19, @04:20PM (#3731743)
      (User #90052 Info)
      Of course I lost the house in the divorce 2 years ago, but that's neither here nor there.

      Funny thing how often I've seen this. A couple builds a home together and a few years later they're divorced. So that is the other side of building it yourself. Your marriage will either last a lifetime or you'll wind up divorced.

      Seriously if my wife and I built a house one of us would be dead and the other in jail.

      [ Parent ]
    Gilbert vs Andrew. (Score:1)
    by Forge (forge#myrealbox.com?Subject=Slashdot) on Wednesday June 19, @11:47AM (#3729509)
    (User #2456 Info | http://www.afflictedyard.com)
    Actualy what matters more than who builds the house or who designs it is what it's made of. I.e. Most of the houses in Florida where built by profesional construction companys and designed by certifide architects. However when Andrew hit whole comunities were converted to wastland.

    By contrast most houses in Jamaica were built by the owners. (It's a lot cheaper to do that if you have even rudimentary knowlage of architecture and construction (Enogh to stop yourself from being robed by a cruked mason or moronic plumber.)

    Those Jamaican houses stud up quite well to the stronger hurican force of Gilbert. Of course a lot of them lost roofs but you didn't see 2 story dwelings reduced to kindling.

    Mainly because Concreat and steal are stronger than wood and papper^M^M^M^M^M^M^Plyboard.

    PS: Of course this hapens because somehow we have managed to build an economy where cement is cheaper than wood for construction.
    [ Parent ]
    Re:Fall Down (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:23AM (#3729328)
    And I have to ask this question:

    Did you even read the review?
    [ Parent ]
    Re:Fall Down (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:41AM (#3729465)
    As others have said, you're an idiot. The book isn't about building the house yourself (despite the title). It is about acting as your own general contractor.

    As a second point ... IMHO, a true owner-built house (ie. doing the actual work yourself) is much less likely to fall down becuse the owner is less likely to cut cost corners to preserve profit & save time.

    For example, rebar is a classic way for contractors to save a few bucks, cuz, unless it fails catastophically (unlikely), the general contractor will never know. I've even seen rebar pulled out of forms after the building inspector has signed off on it! Wonder why your foundation is cracked?

    On the other hand ... I'm building my own addition right now. For an extra $40 I put in 1/3 more rebar then required just for some peace of mind.
    [ Parent ]
soft spirt! (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:04AM (#3729179)
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[ Parent ]
Home Construction ... on Slashdot? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:06AM (#3729203)
What the hell is this, the Bob Vila show?
[ Parent ]
pr0n (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:14AM (#3729268)
Who the hell is paying the advertising for this website? I'm not sure how this fits into slashdot.
[ Parent ]
Earthquake! (Score:0)
by Kentucky Fried Troll on Wednesday June 19, @11:23AM (#3729334)
(User #586390 Info)
Earthquake rocks Los Angeles. Rams plagued by fumbles. Film at 11.
[ Parent ]
Time or Money (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:52AM (#3729552)
“There are plenty of do it yourself books—the question is not one of feasibility, it’s really is your time or money worth more?”
[ Parent ]
Habitat for Humanity (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @12:17PM (#3729724)
I have some time, so I do some volunteer work for Habitat. It is a great way to learn some skills and do something useful. If a bunch of college kids can put a house together, anyone can.

The last job I was at, I asked the foreman how much material was in the duplex (both sides). He replied: $16,000. I suspect there is room to save money in building your own house.
[ Parent ]
    Re:Habitat for Humanity (Score:2)
    by NiftyNews on Wednesday June 19, @02:03PM (#3730650)
    (User #537829 Info | http://www.niftyness.com/nndd/)
    "The last job I was at, I asked the foreman how much material was in the duplex (both sides). He replied: $16,000. I suspect there is room to save money in building your own house."

    Awesome! So how about I mail you $25 for metal and silicon and you build me a computer?

    P.S. Make it have lots of Megahertz. Those are good.
    [ Parent ]
      Re:Habitat for Humanity (Score:0)
      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @03:11PM (#3731191)
      a computer has ip built in which is the price driver. without the IP you could build a machine for $25 yes. a building has no IP oither than blueprints which are very cheap.
      [ Parent ]
website with similarities to the book (Score:0)
by cselking (selkingATangelfire.com) on Wednesday June 19, @03:03PM (#3731126)
(User #259620 Info)
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this earlier but this website has the same sort of stuff that this book has. Check it out...
http://www.ubuildit.com/

Even includes remodeling.
[ Parent ]
Open source building project? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @04:36PM (#3731862)
Clearly people should open source the construction of their house. Put the wood on the land, with some hammers.

Someone is bound to come along and build something for you. You can then rely on the community to look occasionally, mumble about hey -they- would have designed it much better, and then bang in a few more nails.

[ Parent ]
♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1)
by Mr F J Musical-Troll on Wednesday June 19, @11:01AM (#3729160)
(User #582606 Info)
Yet another first post, and more tuneful sounds [warprecords.com].
[ Parent ]
    Re:♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1)
    by L0rdkariya on Wednesday June 19, @11:04AM (#3729185)
    (User #562469 Info)
    An outstanding job from an outstanding troll.

    Important Stuff:
    Please try to keep posts off-topic.
    Try to start new threads.
    Fuck other people's messages, try duplicating what has already been said.
    Use a clear subject such as F1RST P0ST FAGETS !! that describes what your message is about.
    Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated, unless you're at -1 like we all are anyway.

    [ Parent ]
    Re:♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1)
    by CLIT on Wednesday June 19, @11:06AM (#3729201)
    (User #581942 Info | http://slashdot.org/...pe=friend&uid=581942)
    Jolly good!

    I hope to hear more of your FP tunes!
    [ Parent ]
    Re:♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1)
    by News For Turds on Wednesday June 19, @11:19AM (#3729303)
    (User #580751 Info | http://goatse.cx/ | Last Journal: Monday July 15, @03:01PM)
    good job. As a tribute to your masterful troll ways, I now present to you the following epic tale:

    Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard
    v 02.00

    Table of Contents
    1. Overview
    2. DHCP
    3. DNS
    4. IP Address Support
    5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
    6. NetWare Support
    a. Supported Versions
    b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
    c. NetWare 5 Support
    d. No Novell Print Path
    e. No NDS volumes
    f. Support for NDS localities
    7. Device Discovery
    a. Gateway
    b. Multi-homed Machines
    c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
    d. Class A Subnet Masks
    8. Driver Support
    a. License Acceptance
    b. Have Disk Support
    c. HP Driver Updates
    9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
    10. Printer Names
    11. Printer Share Name
    12. Error Messages
    13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
    14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0

    1. Overview
    This Read Me file contains last-minute product information for the Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard for Windows 95/ 98 and Windows NT.

    2. DHCP
    If you try to change just the subnet mask on an HP JetDirect print server that has
    been configured via DHCP, you will get an error message while using the Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard. Once a JetDirect print server has been manually
    configured, it will store the IP address, subnet mask and default gateway statically
    instead of trying to obtain them dynamically. Allowing a static change only to the
    subnet mask would cause DHCP-configured IP conflicts in the future. For more information
    on this subject, see the HP JetDirect documentation.

    3. DNS
    In a DNS environment, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard will
    automatically set up the port with the host name rather than the IP address. If you have
    a DNS environment that allows Host lookup by IP, but not the reverse lookup, the printer
    will never print a page. We consider this environment to be an invalid DNS environment.
    To fix the port without changing the DNS environment, view Properties for the printer.
    Select the ports tab. Select the port that is in use for that printer. Click Configure
    Port. Change the host name to the correct IP address.

    4. IP Address Support
    Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard do not support class D IP address. Class D IP
    addresses are those addresses with the form of 224.xx.yy.zz

    All addresses of the form 127.xx.yy.zz are reserved for loopback testing. They are not valid IP
    to be used to configure device on the network.

    5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
    The algorithm for obtaining the IP address for the "Suggest Settings..." button is
    derived from the Internet Draft DHC-IPV4-AUTOCONFIG by R. Troll entitled "Automatically
    Choosing an IP Address in an Ad-Hoc

    Read the rest of this comment...

    [ Parent ]
    Re:♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1, Offtopic)
    by Big Dogs Cock on Wednesday June 19, @11:21AM (#3729308)
    (User #539391 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday July 15, @10:53AM)
    May we have that post in D-minor?
    [ Parent ]
    Re:♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1)
    by Stock Quote Troll on Wednesday June 19, @11:26AM (#3729360)
    (User #583080 Info | http://quotes.nasdaq.com/)
    I agree with this post.

    LNUX is Dead. Film at 11.
    [ Parent ]
    Re:♬ First musical post! ♫ (Score:-1)
    by GhostseTroll on Wednesday June 19, @11:47AM (#3729513)
    (User #582659 Info | http://oralse.cx/)
    A professor at the University of Mississippi is giving a
    lecture on the supernatural. To get a feel for his
    audience, he asks: "How many people here believe in
    ghostses?" About 90 students raise their hands.

    "Well, that's a good start. Out of those of you who
    believe in ghostses, do any of you think you've ever seen
    a ghostse?" About 40 students raise their hands.

    "That's really good. Has anyone here ever talked to a
    ghostse?" 15 students raise their hands.

    "That's great. Has anyone here ever touched a ghostse?" 3
    students raise their hands.

    "That's fantastic. But let me ask you one question
    further... Have any of you ever made love to a ghostse?"
    One student way in the back raises his hand.

    The professor is astonished and says, "Son, all the
    years I've been giving this lecture, no one has ever
    claimed to have slept with a ghostse. You've got to come
    up here and tell us about your experience."

    The redneck student replies with a nod and a grin, and
    begins to make his way up to the podium. The professor
    says, "Well, tell us what it's like to have sex with
    ghostse."

    The student replies, "Ghostse?!? From ah-way back there ah
    thought yuh said "goatse." [goatse.cx]
    [ Parent ]
First kind post (Score:-1, Troll)
by Mao Zedong on Wednesday June 19, @11:02AM (#3729169)
(User #467890 Info)
I love you.
[ Parent ]
GPL: Intellectual Theft? (Score:-1)
by egg troll on Wednesday June 19, @11:03AM (#3729178)
(User #515396 Info | http://www.microsoft.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday June 04, @05:34PM)
Hello,

Consulting for several large companies, I'd always done my work on Windows. Recently however, a top online investment firm asked us to do some work using Linux. The concept of having access to source code was very appealing to us, as we'd be able to modify the kernel to meet our exacting standards which we're unable to do with Microsoft's products.

Although we met several technical challenges along the way (specifically, Linux's lack of Token Ring support and the fact that we were unable to defrag its ext2 file system), all in all the process went smoothly. Everyone was very pleased with Linux, and we were considering using it for a great deal of future internal projects.

So you can imagine our suprise when we were informed by a lawyer that we would be required to publish our source code for others to use. It was brought to our attention that Linux is copyrighted under something called the GPL, or the Gnu Protective License. Part of this license states that any changes to the kernel are to be made freely available. Unfortunately for us, this meant that the great deal of time and money we spent "touching up" Linux to work for this investment firm would now be available at no cost to our competitors.

Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to its source code released. This was simply unacceptable.

Although we had planned for no one outside of this company to ever use, let alone see the source code, we were now put in a difficult position. We could either give away our hard work, or come up with another solution. Although it was tought to do, there really was no option: We had to rewrite the code, from scratch, for Windows 2000.

I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive with Microsoft is this GPL. Its draconian requirements virtually guarentee that no business will ever be able to use it. After my experience with Linux, I won't be recommending it to any of my associates. I may reconsider if Linux switches its license to something a little more fair, such as Microsoft's "Shared Source". Until then its attempts to socialize the software market will insure it remains only a bit player.

Thank you for your time.
[ Parent ]
    Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft? (Score:0, Offtopic)
    by mycal on Wednesday June 19, @11:52AM (#3729549)
    (User #135781 Info)
    Of course this is a troll, and nothing he says about GPL is true, you knew that though right?

    The application guy doesn't have anything to worry about with GPL unless he bases his application on another application that is allready GPL. In the latter case you'd have the same problem with Microsquishy.

    Microsoft Lacky, you know only microsoft wants Linux to change from GPL, so it can swipe all the internals for its piss poor OS without paying/giving away the sources, much like it has done with BSD. All the good parts of windows OS are from souce code copied from BSD.

    BTW, I've used token ring with linux since 1993. So I don't know what the trolls problem is.

    Oh I see what egg tolls problem is, snipped from one of his previous posts:

    "I consider myself to be very technically inclined having programmed in VB for the last 8 years doing kernel level programming."

    He does kernal level programming with VB. Yea thats going to happen.

    Can we mod this guy down any further?

    -M
    [ Parent ]
    Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft? (Score:-1, Troll)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:37AM (#3729437)
    this is very insightful...please moderators, stop sucking on the editors cocks and mod this up. put down the dick! mod this now!!
    [ Parent ]
That would be funny ... (Score:-1)
by Jon Katz on Tuesday on Wednesday June 19, @11:09AM (#3729220)
(User #578508 Info | http://www.goatse.cx/)
To watch a stupid Slashdot reader try to build his own house. Instead of being taken to the cleaners by a general contractor that knows what they are doing - the typical Slashdot reader would be taken to the cleaners by each and every person working on each and every part of their new home.

Sounds Great! Good Luck!
[ Parent ]
Save $5... (Score:-1)
by GhostseTroll on Wednesday June 19, @11:09AM (#3729223)
(User #582659 Info | http://oralse.cx/)
on your next purchase at bumper dumper.com! [bumperdumper.com]
[ Parent ]
Important News (Score:-1, Troll)
by Kentucky Fried Troll on Wednesday June 19, @11:09AM (#3729225)
(User #586390 Info)
Moscow in flames. Missiles head toward Washington.

Film at 11.
[ Parent ]
!!! IMPORTANT NEWS ALERT !!! (Score:-1)
by Jon Katz on Tuesday on Wednesday June 19, @11:17AM (#3729284)
(User #578508 Info | http://www.goatse.cx/)
I just got off the phone with an analyst friend of mine who works on Wall Street. She said that she just got out of a conference call about VA Software (LNUX) and it's current status.

She tells me that it's currently being moved to the pink pages. This is a book of stocks that are barely traded and worth so little they don't even track them realtime. These penny pages, as they are referred to, are thinner than the pages in your yellow & white pages. They use about a 6 point font to tell you information about a company.

So as you already guessed it, LNUX is DEAD.

Sell the rest of your stocks now CmdrTaco! Oh yeah, you're just a corporate drone that got screwed out of a stock deal. Sorry.
[ Parent ]
Question: How Does One, Fall From Grace? (Score:-1)
by Stock Quote Troll on Wednesday June 19, @11:24AM (#3729341)
(User #583080 Info | http://quotes.nasdaq.com/)
Answer: Please see this for the definition of 'Falling From Grace' [yahoo.com]

Thank You.
[ Parent ]
Don't buy this book! (Score:-1, Flamebait)
by rasactive ([hslice52] [at] [myacc.net]) on Wednesday June 19, @11:24AM (#3729345)
(User #528598 Info)
It's common knowledge that building and owning a house is associated with homosexuality. As a devout Christian [godhatesfags.com], I think it's my duty to explain to my fellow Slashdot readers the implications of this article.

You probably think I'm a fundamentalist Christian. But I'm not. I actually consider myself to be a forward-thinking bleeding-heart liberal. [issues2000.org] It's my opinion that, when Darwin invented Linux, it was the best thing that could happen to computers. While many Christians see Darwin as an enemy to the religion, I see him as the future.

You may be wondering what I am here to tell you. I'm here to say that homosexuality is not OK. And you shouldn't buy this book. You're probably saying to yourself, "But this book was written by a man and his wife." It looks like that at first glance, but here's a real picture [forcedintowomanhood.com] of "Elaine".
[ Parent ]
KURO5HIN TO GO BANKRUPT!!! (Score:-1, Troll)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 19, @11:41AM (#3729464)
In A.D. 2002

                    =>

Bankruptcy was beginning


                00
            00=>00
                00

rusty: What happen ?
cp: Somebody set up us the economy
cp: We get financial report
rusty: What !
cp: Main screen turn on
rusty: It's You !!
creditor: How are you gentlemen !!
creditor: All your linux server are belong to us
creditor: You are on the way to chapter 11
rusty: What you say !!
creditor: You have no chance to survive sell your stock
creditor: HA HA HA HA ....
cp: Rusty!
rusty: Sell off every 'thing'
rusty: I know what I doing
rusty: Sell 'thing'
[ Parent ]
    Re:KURO5HIN TO GO BANKRUPT!!! (Score:-1)
    by GhostseTroll on Wednesday June 19, @11:50AM (#3729527)
    (User #582659 Info | http://oralse.cx/)
    A professor at the University of Mississippi is giving a
    lecture on the supernatural. To get a feel for his
    audience, he asks: "How many people here believe in
    ghostses?" About 90 students raise their hands.

    "Well, that's a good start. Out of those of you who
    believe in ghostses, do any of you think you've ever seen
    a ghostse?" About 40 students raise their hands.

    "That's really good. Has anyone here ever talked to a
    ghostse?" 15 students raise their hands.

    "That's great. Has anyone here ever touched a ghostse?" 3
    students raise their hands.

    "That's fantastic. But let me ask you one question
    further... Have any of you ever made love to a ghostse?"
    One student way in the back raises his hand.

    The professor is astonished and says, "Son, all the
    years I've been giving this lecture, no one has ever
    claimed to have slept with a ghostse. You've got to come
    up here and tell us about your experience."

    The redneck student replies with a nod and a grin, and
    begins to make his way up to the podium. The professor
    says, "Well, tell us what it's like to have sex with
    ghostse."

    The student replies, "Ghostse?!? From ah-way back there ah
    thought yuh said "goatse." [goatse.cx]
    [ Parent ]
1 | (2) (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
  Boy, am I glad it's only 1971...
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