Good information, Justin.  Thanks for posting it.   My lot has a panoramic view of mountains, so the design I'm working on now has a lot of windows.  I'm a long way from selecting windows, but your info will eventually come in handy. 

Ken,

I agree with your observation on panelized construction.  Although you'd think the well-publicized process efficiencies should result in lower costs, it just doesn't seem to be the reality.  Perhaps not enough competition in the field yet. 

If you happened to catch the This Old House series on panelized construction of the Bensonwood barn-style Weston home you would have noticed consistent references to the many opportunities for construction cost savings (due to time/labor reduction), less waste (due to factory processes and supply chain controls) and quality improvements (factory controls) resulting from their prefabrication methods.   For example, a quote from the Bensonwood web site; "Prefabrication saves construction time on site. Dollar for dollar, this allows Bensonwood to add a level of craftsmanship rarely seen on comparably priced, conventional stick-built homes. The shell package for most of our projects is raised and enclosed within 2-3 weeks".

Yet, Bensonwood themselves seem to back down from touting any bottom-line savings when addressing the actual final costs of their projects, stating; "There is little difference in the cost of building a fully timberframed home with insulated panels, compared to a conventionally framed, or log home, with the "SAME" performance qualities".   

So, what they're saying is; 'cost savings gained through time and waste reduction are lost through improved quality of the finished product (even though materials are comparable and the finished product performs the same)'.      Hmm..?  In my mind, even in a project where high-quality finish materials are used, a construction method incorporating so much more process efficiency, and resulting in the SAME performance characteristics, should result in lower costs when using comparable materials.

Regarding your project...  (at the risk of stating the obvious) to what extent did you have to adjust your plans in order to take advantage of your multiple uses of prefabricated materials (trusses, etc)?      

I've purchased raw land and I'm now considering the O-B process to build my home on it. I've read through a good amount of this site, as well as others, and I think I have a good understanding of the major steps and work involved. What I'm struggling with at this point is understanding the potential benefits relative to the effort. 

I realize there are many, many factors that can impact cost, but I was just wondering if some of the folks who have gone down the O-B path could tell me what they think they've saved, or will be saving, by not using a GC. 

I've read some estimates from other posters in different parts of the country, but I can't find much data specific to building in Arizona. Does anyone have any thoughts on the potential savings by doing O-B here in Arizona?

Phil,

I'll be building in Maricopa county, over near Goodyear. I bought rural raw land there. I have a lot to do just to get things started... I have no plans, permits, driveway, electric or septic. But I have good intentions and a strong will! 

I'll be building around a 4,000 sq ft custom home. I do have a shared well agreement with a well that is already existing two parcels away, but there is no plumbing run from it to my property. Electricity is about 500 feet west of my property. It will need to be brought the rest of the way over and then an additional 300 feet further to bring power to the well. 

Regarding your suggestion of having time to be on the job site; I'm seriously considering getting the electric and water up and running and then putting a travel trailer on the property. I have an existing home I need to remodel before I put it up for sale, so it would be nice to be moved out of it while the remodel is going on. I think I could handle living in the trailer for about a year. Just a strategy I'm thinking about because it seems to fit well... but I'm not sure. 

I appreciate your offer to help... I know I'm going to need it.  Thanks.

I'm developing sketches to capture my floor plan ideas.  I'll be taking them to an architect to have my house plans created.

I was wondering if there are any general rules-of-thumb I could follow to determine the maximum span length for a room on the first floor if a room is going to be above it on the second floor?  In other words, typically how long can a room be between its walls to adequately support the second floor?

I realize it will need to be engineered and that there are a lot of variables to consider, like joist spacing, joist size, etc... but I'm just looking for a starting reference point to consider in my design sketches.  My house will be typical wood construction.

Can anyone offer a suggestion on how to consider first floor room size?

Thanks Jon! I've since had my plan looked over by a home designer. The span length I was concerned about was given a 'thumbs-up'. Your reference material was helpful in making my sketches. Yes, I recall many hours at the library... and I must say, although maybe not as productive, I actually miss that.

Hi Francis,

It's been quite a while since your last post... I was wondering which type of construction you decided to go with?  I'm just doing research now and the Energy Panel System looks interesting to me.

Just thought I'd let everyone know the Arizona Solar Center's Living with the Sun - Arizona Style - 2008 Tours of Solar and Sustainable Buildings for the Phoenix area is scheduled for this weekend.   A tour brochure is now available on their website. 

I'm incorporating passive solar in my home design and plan on installing active solar wherever it makes sense.  I hope to get ideas and reassurance out of the tour. 

azsolarcenter.com

Interesting article on solar rooftop sheeting: popsci.com. Be sure to check out the 'SEE HOW IT WORKS' link. 

Justin,

I had the same experience you did when I went to the DB sales pitch at their new showroom in Tempe. I didn't sign up with them mainly because I was turned off by the classic high-pressure sales tactics. The experience was like a page right out of the 'What Not to Do in Modern Day Sales' handbook.  

The other reason I chose not to join was, even though I'm now starting the process of building my own home so I'll be looking at a lot of fairly big-ticket purchases, I really don't think the discounts they pitched are all that great. I had recently purchased a 58" plasma TV just two weeks before I went in for their presentation. After the presentation I looked up the same TV in their catalog and found that I paid $80 more than what I could have purchased it for from them. That's an $80 savings on a $3,600 item. I figured, if that was typical, it would take too many large purchases to ever make up the fees.  

Just my experience...

Your home is coming together beautifully!  I'm curious as to what you were standing on while taking the photo above (the one with the ladder in the corner of the windows).  Is that a loft area open to the great room?  I'm just curious because your plan looks similar in shape and size to mine.

PVCC has now posted their Fall schedule to the Web.  You can find this course on page 24 of the schedule here: paradisevalley.edu/ce

I was planning on enrolling in the course, so you can count me in for sure.  I'd offer my home in Ahwatukee as a meeting place, but it's not large enough...  and it's undergoing remodeling right now.  If there is anything I can do to help, just let me know. 

Dwain,

Might be a bit off-topic for this thread, but your earlier post spurred me to contact the AZ Corporation Commission just to see what I could find out and I thought I should follow up with you on what I've now been told...   A representative from the Phx Utilities Division got back with me to explain that "...this issue is not on the rate case currently being reviewed by the ACC".  He also stated "...it's the current opinion of the commission that under the old rule 'nothing was free'; the line extension costs were just paid by the total population of electrical consumers..." and that, "...although things could change, the current thought is that 'growth should pay for growth'".

Looks like I'll be spending that extra $8K after all.    

I know nothing about their quality or service, but I just saw Accent Windows in Phoenix (maybe other locations too) has a deal going through the summer where you get $200 off each window if you mention you saw their demonstration on TV3.   I don't need windows yet, that's at least a year away for me, but I just saw their segment on TV3 and thought I'd share the savings tip in case anyone was looking at them for windows. accentwindows.com

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this lender: Cash Value Home Alliance

Right now, I'm considering Chief Architect Home Design Suite 9 or Punch Home Design Pro Series (they seem to be comparable products based on price range). I was wondering if anyone has recent experience with these two packages, or recommendations for others at a similar level of functionality.  

Joe,

Thanks for your thoughts as well. I hadn't been planning to create my own final construction drawings, because I'm hoping to involve a designer or architect to provide their design expertise, particularly in the green area, in addition to the drawings. 

Although, your strategy is certainly tempting from the budget aspect. I like the idea of using software that my designer could also use. I would think that might help in the final cost, even if I have the plans done by the designer.

Kay,

Grant,

Before I saw your post here, I had already read the Greenbuildingtalk article and had made a note to follow-up with LTU to see if I could get in the loop for any publications that come out of their Energy Systems Conference in November.  Please do keep us posted.

This sounds very promising and is a great opportunity for you to contribute, indeed.  If your efforts ever require trials in extreme climates...  I just happen to have a 1.25-acre test lab in one of the hottest inhabitable geographic regions in the country.  Keep me in mind...

Hi Faye,

I like your stone veneer.  It goes very well with the wood color of those beautiful doors.  Good choices!  (I couldn't get your Construction Website link to work directly from your forum post, but I got there with a little tweaking of the URL.) 

Are you saying that you got quotes up to 120K for geothermal, but you're doing it yourself for 22K total?  Is your system going to provide the heating and cooling of your home exclusively, or is it supplemented with an alternative system?

Being in Arizona, I'm definitely planning to incorporate solar.  My initial budget may not let me do everything I'd like to with it, but I really like Grant's idea of designing my house plans for future applications.  

Although at this point, like you, I'm not sure where to begin researching wind, I also want to look into it.  My land sits in a valley at the bottom of a large desert mountain.   There's often a breeze coming from the valley directly onto my property, so I really need to educate myself on wind. 

Keep us posted... and the inspectors educated! 

Byron,

You've reinforced what my framer had thought about the wall not providing support to the trusses. It helps to have such a well-qualified opinion... thank you for sharing your expertise.

Our 30 feet of new patio doors are on order. I've taken you advice and started a scale drawing of the new wall.

Regarding removing the patio, as far as patios go it isn't really all that functional anyway. With three sets of double doors into the house (one on each wall of the patio), and being only 9' deep, we don't really care much for the patio as it is.  

The real outdoor living space is to the left of the existing patio, past the pool. A 20'x70' patio there wraps around the entire east side of the house (you can see part of it on the left in this photo). That patio is off the family room and is  shaded entirely by mature trees. Once we add a set of French doors on each side of the fireplace (which I intend to convert to a double-sided fireplace someday), that area will be our main outdoor living space.   

There's also a raised deck up on top of a very large boulder on the right side of the yard. I plan to add another deck between the trees and the pool, toward the middle of the photo.  

Regarding the permit, I've gotten mixed advice on whether this project requires it. One question I have is, if I don't permit it, years down the road when I go to sell the house, will I be able to list it with the additional 270 sq ft of living space moving the wall out added to the floor plan? If you don't mind, what are your concerns with having it permitted?

Hi Byron,

Ah, yes, of course... I can see why you would wonder how the trusses are supported. I should have mentioned, the trusses terminate at the outer edge of the patio where they're supported along the entire width of the house by a 10"x6" wood beam. The beam is then supported under the open width of the patio area by two very large 24" diameter concrete Spanish columns with footers underneath. The columns are spaced equally apart along the patio opening.

I did have a framer take a look this weekend. He agreed the wall is not load-bearing. My concern is more that of, being a clay tile roof, perhaps the slight support the wall currently provides at the point 9 feet into the house, might be missed over time. Given the new, longer length of the span between the peak of the roof and the outer edge of the patio will be the full length of one side of the truss (one-half of the house... about 27 feet), I'm wondering if the trusses should be reinforced in any way so that they won't sag under the weight of the roof over time.      

Or maybe I'm over-thinking it.  

I've attached a photo. I want to demolish the wall you see 9 feet behind the columns and rebuild it just a few inches immediately behind the columns. It will be mostly glass, as the mountain inclines sharply upward at the point I was standing to take this photo.

Alex,

Can you elaborate just a bit on your comment about the problems you had with the wash?  I assume you were dealing with Maricopa County.  What was the issue they had that set you back? 

I'm starting the permit process and my rural lot has a very large wash at its northern edge. 

Thanks!

...aerial photo I just mentioned above.

George,

I currently have my home with State Farm, so, although I'm a long way from needing it, when I do need construction insurance I'll be talking with them about it.  I'm curious to know what the basis was for their big objection to insuring an O-B project.  Did they have data that shows an O-B project is a greater risk? 

Hi Justin,

Did you decide to use The Wall Company for your basement?  CMU or ICF? 

I'm considering having a basement in my design, so I'm just trying to understand all the options and the costs.  Thanks.

Jeff,

Justin,

Did you decide to go with this designer?  Were you satisfied with whomever you ended up using? I'm starting to look for one now.  I have one I need to look into and one I've been told to avoid.

The Construction Loan Company doesn't do business in Arizona either. 

I've already purchased my land and I had been planning on financing my construction through M&I or Bank of America (Countrywide), both of which I've had mortgages with in the past.  Both of them have now told me they are not offering construction loans at all, regardless of O-B or not. I'm running out of options fast. 

My lot is zoned RU-43.  According to the 'Height, Yard and Intensity of Use Regulation' I received from the county zoning department, RU-43 is restricted to a maximum two-story house.  The house plan I'm now considering has a basement, a first floor, and a small loft area above the kitchen that overlooks into the great room area.  The great room area is open above to the same ceiling height as the ceiling of the loft area.

Would this be considered a three-story house (basement + first floor + one room loft)?  Or is the basement not counted as a story?  Or would the loft room not be considered as an additional story? 

Thanks Justin.  That is great feedback. 

I was thinking I'd be ok with the floors limits, but was just looking for some reassurance before I go any further with my design.  I'll double-check with the county before I take my final sketches to an architect, but it's good to hear from someone who's been through the permit process.

And that's good news about the driveway.  My lot is 330' x 165', but I'm very limited as to how I can position the house because the lot has a steep grade in the area I want to build.  I have to position the house length-wise in line with the 165' width.   If I don't make any changes, the plan as I have it now protrudes a couple of feet into the 30' limit on one side.   On the north side of the 165' width is the lot that doesn't seem buildable.  On the south side of the 165' width is mountain park preserve land.  I'm not sure how the county will look at those as 'interior sides'.  

It will be close, but I might need to try getting the variance.  Of course, it will depend on how open to approving variance the county is, but I'm almost certain I can make a case that the neighboring lot could never be used, even with engineering.  A large wash covers the entire width of that lot and the slope is extreme.