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Ohio >> Thinking about owner-building in NW Ohio
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Meg's Forum Posts: 3 Average Forum Rating: 3.67Randomly Selected Image By Meg in Findlay, OH on 5/24/2007
Is there anyone else in northwest Ohio who are thinking about or are owner building? Any help would be appreciated!
We are in the planning process and I'm getting ready to try and convince my husband that we can do it.
Jon's Forum Posts: 35 Interview Answers: 62 Average Forum Rating: 3.93Randomly Selected Image By Jon in Perrysburg, OH on 5/26/2007
I live in Perrysburg and am getting ready to hit the bank with my request - at least that's what I hope. Things take longer than you could even imagine, and the more you research, the better off you will be. There are a lot of ways to build a house, the more you know and understand, the better.
I hope to start this July, August and be done by March at the latest. I have done a ton, literally thousands of hours of research and will try to help you in any way that I can. For now, remember that you can do it. But it takes a ton of effort. Only time will tell for me if it was worth it. It most likely will be. The best part is that you can end up having a much better quality house than if you paid some moron to build it. I have already seen that in my planning.
First piece of advice: Preparation, preparation, and more preparation!
Take Care,
Jon
Meg's Forum Posts: 3 Average Forum Rating: 3.67Randomly Selected Image By Meg in Findlay, OH on 6/15/2007
Jon-
Are there any suppliers in the Toledo area that you would recommend? I've done some pricing at the Menards, Home Depot and Lowe's here in town and my husband's brother-in-law, who would most likely help us, worked at Carter Lumber. There is one other supplier in town but you have to be working with a contractor before they will even show you anything.
Are you stick building? I've been looking into panelization and SIP to save some time. Ed, that's the brother-in-law, does beautiful finishing work, but he is sloowwww. He actually brought up that our deed restriction says the outside work needs to be complete one year after you break ground so he wouldn't need to have the inside done in a year! It was all we could do to not start laughing then and there. Luckily, Joe also has a brother-in-law that does drywall and paints and a nephew who is an electrician.
Are you doing the construction yourself? My husband and I are not handy with electrical and plumbing beyond installing a light or fixing a dripping faucet. I can tile though. I'm hoping to tile our entrance, kitchen and downstairs hall and possible come close to what it would cost to pay someone to put in vinyl.
Thank you for any advice you can give me!
Meg
Jon's Forum Posts: 35 Interview Answers: 62 Average Forum Rating: 3.93Randomly Selected Image By Jon in Perrysburg, OH on 6/20/2007
Meg,
As far as suppliers, I so far have only taken a bid from Gordon Lumber Co., in Maumee. They also have a store in Findlay. I am also currently checking into 84 Lumber. I'm sure that they have one near you. Actually, I think I recall one that was or is near SR-15 by the airport, though it looked like it changed hands recently.
As for stick-building... I do not like it, though still have not ruled it out for several reasons. The main reason I would still do it is to simplify the process. One supplier and the cheapest method. However, I think stick framing is terribly inefficient, but can be made more efficient with some extra time and money. If I were to stick frame, I would pay careful attention to how I would insulate... especially if I were to be staying in this home a long time. I would if at all possible reduce every chance of air infiltration through those walls. The only solid way to do this is by using an insulation such as spray foam to seal up every gap and crack from this inefficient way of building. This can get expensive and may not be effective with your time of payback.
As for panelized construction or SIP's. Very slick stuff. There is an Insulspan house that just went up around the corner from our current house. They can go up quick and easy and are very tight (low air infiltration) I was (and of course reconsidering) interested in using this product on our home. Though I have not ruled it out, I have been committed for some time to another energy efficient method.
The method that I have chosen to go with is called insulated concrete forms or ICF's. They are big Styrofoam blocks that you reinforce with concrete and rebar on the inside. The end result is Styrofoam on the inner and outer shell with plastic or metal studs built into the forms for attaching drywall, siding, or whatever. Zero air infiltration. Remember, you can insulate the crap out of your home, but the cracks and gaps need to be sealed up. The ICF's (and SIP's) have little or no air infiltration and do not have any thermal breaks like stick-frame construction does. Thermal breaks would be your studs on the outer walls, typically every 16 to 24"... which adds up to me.
NOW, why did I choose the ICF's over the SIP's??? Because my wife's uncle is a distributor and installer of Arxx ICFs in Eastern Ohio. I am still working him for a price (typical contractor), but know that I would get these forms for wholesale price, which should be more cost-effective than going with SIP's. However, he is driving me nuts with getting things done in a timely fashion (again, typical contractor). I would hate to fire my own uncle before even starting the job!
OK, so if you get anything from this long, drawn-out reply... Remember "air infiltration". Fiberglass insulation will not cut it. If you are planning to stay in this house for longer than five years, then do everything cost effectively that you can to improve energy efficiency. Second, no matter what you choose to do for the upper floor(s) - - Stick, SIP or ICF, you absolutely need to make sure to have a well-insulated and low-moisture basement. Homes are becoming so well insulated upstairs that most heat loss is coming from the basement. No matter what anyone tells you, basements do lose heat from your house, especially the upper half. In my opinion, the only way is to use ICF's for at least the foundation walls. You will have superior insulation, ties to attach drywall (will need for code to cover up the foam), and the strength of a poured foundation wall - - but needing less concrete because of better reinforcement with rebar. This, with placing foam insulation on the floors and sealing the seams, will give you a nice comfortable basement.
Here are some of my websites and phone numbers of suppliers, distributors and contractors:
ICFs: arxxbuild.com
SIPs: insulspan.com (I know of a dealer in Putnam County)
Flexible foam underlayment for basement floor with vapor barrier: thebarrier.com (I can forward you the prices that I have)
Icynene spray foam: SealTech Insulation. sealtechinsulation.com They are from just over the border in Michigan and do all types of insulation. Their pricing on the foam insulation is so good, that I am planning to use them for anything that is not ICF or SIP. For example, for only about $1,000 more, I can spray-foam my entire attic space instead of blown insulation. Remember that "air infiltration" thing? Think of all the drywall joints, fixtures, openings where air would travel. Also think about the amount of heat gain on your house just from the attic - - because of those asphalt shingles. 6" R-38 of foam will drastically cut down on your air infiltration/exfiltration and stop most of your heat gain from the roof. Well worth $1,000 if you ask me!
Prices for spray foam: $1.85/sq ft for 6"; $1.65/sq ft for 2x4 walls, and $1.80/lin. ft for rim joists.
Prices for labor on framing: $3.50-$3.75/sq ft.
Remember too: The tighter your house is, the less air leaking from gaps and cracks - - which is good, but can be bad IF you do not make up for this lost air. With a tight house, you will absolutely need a Heat Recovery Ventilator (HRV). The HRV is used as a controllable source of FRESH AIR. Brings fresh air in, moves stale air out, yet not losing too much heat and thus still saving energy. You can actually use one in place of your bathroom fans (bathroom fans are highly ineffective for any type of ventilation). You can choose to include an HRV in with your typical furnace, or do what I plan to do and make this a separate system. For under $1,000, you should be able to install a fresh air system that will work for years to come. I plan to use a HRV from americanaldes.com .
The tighter your house and the better insulated, the smaller the heating and cooling system needed, which could help you make back some of your money. Another good site that I found through this web page is hvaccalc.com There are too many heating and cooling "professionals" that have no clue on how to size a system for an energy-efficient house. This is a perfect example of why you as an owner-builder need to arm yourself with as much research and preparation as possible. My goal is to be better researched than most GC's. After talking with many GC's, I feel that I have done this. Now I just need to pull this all together to get it going! Lots of work!!!
I have thrown a ton of information at you here, so I will give you some time to digest this and check back if you have any questions.
To answer your last question, I am planning to do much of the work myself, but have budgeted as if I am hiring it all out. As of now, planning to do what I think I can save the most money on without wasting valuable and interest-accruing time. I am a firefighter/paramedic and have a very lucrative schedule for this project. So I plan to do more work than I normally would. Labor is just soooo expensive for some things... especially finish work. I plan to do the roof, radiant heating, ventilation and a/c, plumbing, hardwood floors, tile, paint, trim, pulling my hair out, and possibly hiding my uncle's body if he continues to yank my chain. My goal is to finish in under 9 months with price under $65/sq ft, preferably $50/sq ft - - but could be dreaming.
John's Forum Posts: 7 Interview Answers: 3 Average Forum Rating: 3.64Randomly Selected Image By John in Strongsville, OH on 8/10/2009 Hi Jon, Great post! I wanted to know if you had any suggestions for radiant heating suppliers and how was the installation. Also, I assume your home is done by now, how did it go? Any lessons learned? I'm looking to build my first home in NE Ohio in 2010. I'm looking for land now and have spent a few months learning about owner-building. Thanks, John
Jon's Forum Posts: 35 Interview Answers: 62 Average Forum Rating: 3.93Randomly Selected Image By Jon in Perrysburg, OH on 8/13/2009
Hi John,
I remember posting this some time ago and recall how long it took me to put it together. I'm glad some people are getting use out of it.
I replied to you in another thread as well. To recap, I did not decide to go forward with the build for several reasons.
We were expecting our first child.
The build was getting too expensive, and I was trying too hard to trim fat that was not there.
We were approved for a loan, but it was a jumbo loan and we did not have at least 20% equity in our land.
I didn't feel comfortable dealing with the bank for the construction process, being that I was trying to do work myself.
With all of this, I determined that it just wasn't worth the hassle or risk right now. I just filed away all of my paperwork for another time.
Currently, paying off the land loan at a very large pace. I plan to save enough money over the next four years to pay cash for shell in and watertight - - real close to passing final inspection. After that I plan to either do the rest of the work out of cash or take out a small refinance loan. This way, I can avoid dealing with the pressures of the construction loan.
My ultimate decision was based on the current economic conditions that are now present. Too many people were getting too ahead of themselves and too far into debt. I didn't want to subject my family to that.
Regarding energy efficiency, I feel that making the envelope tight is the first and most economical choice. From the basement up... ICF, SIP or Icynene walls for the first and second floors. Icynene for the attic. Fresh air ventilation is a must based on what system you use - and there are many different ideas here. There is a guy on this site from Missouri that is very knowledgeable and has some good threads.
Radiant heat - expensive. Make sure you will get payback with all of your other insulation upgrades. If simply a comfort thing, consider if your system will cycle enough because your house is so energy efficient.
If you are looking for a supplier for radiant heat, send me a personal message and I will see what I can do. The supplier would be two hours from you, which may not be helpful for you.
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