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The Designs Are Awful!

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 8/26/2009

After 7 weeks we have the first round of floorplans from the designer. I don't think he was listening, and I cannot imagine it took him 7 weeks to produce this. I could do better myself- and probably will.

We are planning a 4,000 +/- sq. ft. home. We need three kids bedrooms, playroom, and two master suites (my Mom is going to live with us). We told him we wanted an open floorplan kitchen/nook, family room, dining room, office and laundry room. I gave him a half dozen floorplans that we liked but would need some changes, gave him approximate room sizes that are flexible and also gave him some details, such as we want a fireplace in the family room and a double door front entry... and we showed him the light fixture for the foyer. I even gave him the complete layout for the master bath.

Somehow, this is an extremely hard setup, because this floorplan is NOTHING like what we showed him and talked about. The entryway is divided into two atriums that are open at the top making the roof look like a fish bowl and the perfect setup for flooding! You have to walk through the playroom to get to any kids' room, and the door to that is IN the kitchen. The bathroom I gave him was not used and a boring, standard bathroom was put in its place. The garage door is even on the wrong side!

I am a little upset that for $5,000 it looks like I am going to have to design my own floorplan and then he can add the structural components to my drawings. I don't want to be "sold" on a house he drew, I want to build MY house!

Okay... I'm calmer now...

Posted by Rachal in Janesville, CA on 8/26/2009 Rachal's Forum Posts: 79 Journal Entries: 31 Interview Answers: 62 Average Forum Rating: 3.84 Rachal's Selected Image 8/26/2009	Patience is a virtue. Ask him why he did this instead of that. If he gives a good reason, then counter it with "how do we get around that?"If he doesn't give a good reason, insist that he change it. Try not to get upset. You don't want to be known throughout the building community as, "That Crazy Lady."  Sometimes you have to walk people through their jobs.  Good Luck.
Posted by Mary in PA on 8/30/2009 Mary's Forum Posts: 101 Journal Entries: 60 Interview Answers: 15 Average Forum Rating: 4.17 Image from Mary's blog 8/30/2009	Hi I’m going through a situation that has some similarities to yours – I can definitely relate to your feelings of frustration and concern that after spending a good chunk of money you are concerned you might not wind up with what you want for your house design. The details of my situation are in my blog, and vary somewhat from yours so I won’t repeat them here. I have a suggestion though. You may have already done this or be past this point, but I thought I would offer it in case it is of use.   Consider carefully what it is you don’t like AND what it is you like (there must be something) about the plan. Make a list of each, on different pieces of paper. Consider each list on its own and prioritize items into groups such as, “I really like this and would sacrifice something else to keep it”, “I sorta like this but could live without it”. Or on the other sheet, “I very strongly dislike this and would like it changed”, “I dislike this but could live it” … you get the idea. For each item, write why it is you feel this way. You feeling may be very practical such as “I don’t like the kids bedrooms at the other side of the playroom because they’re too far from that master suite for problems or emergencies (at night)”. Or they might be more just a personal taste like “I don’t like the look of the foyer, it feels unwelcoming to me”.   If you present both the good and bad to the designer, with your reasons, it may make the working relationship better. He/she may tend to see you more as a discriminating, thinking client. I think all designers dread the feeling they’re working with a client that is “changing their mind” or “impossible to please”. Now – I’m NOT saying that’s what you are – not in the least! I’m just saying that you’ve felt you conveyed in some detail what you wanted (notes and such before hand) and you got a plan that you feel is way off the mark. Turning it around from the designer’s point of view, he/she feels (rightly or wrongly) that the notes were converted into an original design that meets the clients needs … so if you don’t like anything he/she see it as the client “changed their mind”.    I turned over extensive notes to our architect and had several follow-up conversations with him. I feel we were both working in good faith on the design intent (although I think he was too slow with only three calendar days actually worked over 8 weeks!). He turned out a plan that was pretty far from what I had hoped for … and that was when I realized how hard it is to have the client’s vision and designer’s vision meet up. It's a difficult challenge. Best of luck and hope the second round goes a lot better.
Posted by Michelle in Plano, TX on 9/4/2009 Michelle's Forum Posts: 2 Interview Answers: 1 Average Forum Rating: 3.50 Randomly Selected Image 9/4/2009	I am now 'working' with my 3rd architect.  The first one - known to be an award winning 'green' builder in my area was a fraud - undependable with a bad attitude and didn't come close to my requests.  How do you answer someone when they ask you 'why do you want that' - referring to an outdoor courtyard.  The second one - was a designer - and she was great - the problem was she was referred to me by the 'green consultant' I hired and a conflict of interest arose with my using her since her husband was the builder for the consultant!  The 3rd one was OK but wanted to start from scratch - when by the time I met him - I already had the CAD drawings.  And he posed a question to me too which sent up a red flag -  "why would you want a transom window when it will cost you the price of 2 windows?"  I also want some style to the house.  My suggestion is trust yourself!  If you are very detailed in your communication as I was - your architect should deliver what you want!  I finally ended up buying a program which I refer to as 'Chief Architect' lite - but it gave me more of a true representation than any of the 3 people did - and I could change it as many times as I learned how to in the program!
Posted by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 9/4/2009 Donna's Forum Posts: 4 Journal Entries: 11 Interview Answers: 44 Average Forum Rating: 3.00 Donna's Selected Image 9/4/2009	Thank you all for your comments all of which are great suggestions.  I have all the patience in the world if the designer is listening to me, so I will give him another go-round and see what happens.  At the same time, we spent nearly 4 years deciding on what we wanted in this house and so I was able to be very specific and detailed.  Of course we are trying to keep costs down and we are owner-building, so my husband would like to keep the varying roof pitches to a minimum.  The house will have 10' ceilings throughout except I asked him to design an attractive entry way with double front doors leading into a foyer with 12 foot ceilings for a chandelier and I want to be able to look straight through from there (probably through the family room) to the sliding doors going out to the back.  What I got was a detached entry (with double doors) into a 10' ceiling foyer with two glass atriums on either side - where the heck did THAT come from?  In switching from designer to designer what do you do about all the money that has been spent?  I have already paid this guy half of his $5000 fee and I do not plan on giving him another penny until we are A LOT closer!  I think what is bothering me is because I just want him to design the house I asked him to design, I do not want all this "creative" stuff.
Posted by Phil in Asheville, NC on 9/5/2009 Phil's Forum Posts: 5 Journal Entries: 9 Interview Answers: 69 Average Forum Rating: 3.20 Phil's Selected Image 9/5/2009	The more I read about architects the more I am convinced I am better off doing most of the work myself... Which I am. I use CAD in my landscape design business and have already started designing the house (2010) build. As was mentioned earlier on here, you can change and move things around to your own desire, all it costs is time. I know CAD looks daunting to some but read the basic instructions, play for a few hours and your away! I plan to do 90% of the designs myself and have an engineer fine tune them. Phil

Tick-Tock

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 8/14/2009

Hi everyone -

Not a lot has been going on except dreaming and worrying. The designer is still working on the preliminary drawings, and we have talked with him a few times on some ideas he had.  He provided us with the mock drawings and is working on the site plan, so we can change the zone use for the property from single family to family farm.

In the meantime, my worries center around whether I just bought $5,000 worth of building plans for a house I cannot afford to build, which would leave me with a $5,000 wall hanging! We are banking on the O-B route saving us enough to make this happen. 

In the meantime, I have found it amazing the things you notice when you are planning a build. I just realized that we have at least one truss company, at least three cabinet shops, two granite-countertop stores, and a stonework place between the house and work. Who knew?! I just paid any attention before but certainly good to know now!

I'll write back soon. Hope your projects are all going well!

Hurry Up and Wait!

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 7/13/2009

So we met with the designer on Saturday and it was fantastic! He arrived early to the appointment and when we asked how to begin, his answer wasn't "write me a check."

He reviewed all of our cut-out floorplan ideas, looked through our scrapbook of ideas, took all our grid-paper drawings, and asked some really great questions! For example, the front of our house faces east and the back faces west - he had some concerns and some ideas about all the sunlight exposure and the heat it would bring in.

We talked about exterior wall construction, our existing well, and whether it is adequate for the new house, and many other details I really had not thought too deeply about.

We are happy with our designer choice. I sure hope it stays that way! He says he will have a floorplan sketch in a couple of weeks with some alternative kitchen layout, etc. to choose from. Once we settle on some of those things, we will meet with him to play on the computer and see what some different options will look like on his 3D system. Very cool. After that, it will take 4-6 weeks to finalize the prelims. It is at that point that we need to carefully review all of choices, and details. Once we release the prelims, he will begin adding in the structural requirements, etc.

We are hoping to have final stamped plans around October so we can stop guessing at what our cost to build will be and start taking some real bids!

Oh, and I wrote that check without hesitation! 

Very exciting stuff.

The First Big Check!

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 7/8/2009

The designer is coming to the house on Saturday to go over the plans for our "dream house". The scrapbook is basically complete, so he should have a pretty good idea where we are going with this project. It is time to write that first big check - the one that basically commits us to the project! I have to give him a deposit of $1,500.

On another note, we went to IKEA to check some things out. They have a lot of great ideas, although I am not sure I will buy from them. We took pictures and measured rooms. It was actually a lot of fun.

I'll let you all know how the designer appointment goes. I'm excited!

Assembling the Scrapbook

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/29/2009

We are scheduled to meet with the designer (Jason) on Saturday, July 11, 2009. Between now and then we will be putting together a scrapbook of floor plans we like, exterior designs we like, and some of the details of the interior. It is going pretty well. Having gone to the home show last weekend, we have a small mountain of stuff to wade through. It has actually been fun to look at everything.

So, the scrapbook assembly has begun. I'll let you know what happens after we meet with Jason.

We May Have a Designer!

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/24/2009

I have spoken to several designers, and have discovered that too many of them only have a limited idea of what they are talking about! I think we found a designer that we are comfortable with, and are in the "haggling" process right now.

Things are so tight right now, people are willing to wheel and deal, but I don't want to "lowball" him to the point he is unhappy that he took the bid. 

We are planning to build a 4,000 sq. ft. total footprint house, and I am countering his bid of $5,100 with $4,650 which includes full plans, site plans, engineer stamp and four copies (three stamped and sealed for the county) and one reproducable set for us. 

I calculated it at $1/sq. ft. less the porch and patio area, as they are not living space.

Waiting on his reply...

Running the Numbers

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/18/2009

So I have started the process to find out just where we sit with the whole debt-to-income ratio, the equity in the property as compared to the amount we need to build - plus the payoff of the existing mortgage and the credit score requirements. While it appears that we are in fair shape, I have been advised by my bank that things change almost every day, and although they currently require a 700 credit score and a 75% LTV for a construction loan, that may change by the time we are ready to go.

I wish I had rock-solid answers, but it seems we are going to have to spend the money and put the time in before we will ever know if all our plans are even possible.

I'm still dreaming!

Starting to Get the Hang of This

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/16/2009

The picture is starting to come together - with a few holes...

While we are in the design phase, I am also researching the construction loan process. The difference between lenders is tremendous. Since we are about a year away from ground-breaking and the current economy is driving the lenders right now, we have decided to focus on increasing our credit score as high as we can get it over the next year while we continue to forge ahead as O-B's.

I found a draftsman yesterday who quoted $1/sq. ft. for drawing up our plans and included two sealed sets for the county, and two for us. The only thing not included was the site plan, and he charges $200 for that. I like the guy, and it appears he went to high school with my husband many odd years ago! BUT, we are going to stick to the rules and get at least three bids on every aspect of the project and check out everyone we are considering using. So although I liked the guy - he has to pass muster!

In the meantime, I have calmed down a little and started realizing that there are major construction decisions that have to be made before the designer can even begin - like what will the walls be made of! Being in Florida, we are considering solid wall construction and I have discovered that there are at least two types of walls done that way. So - more homework!

A Slow Start

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/15/2009

The more homework I do - the more homework I have to do! Like I said in the last post, I decided to make sure the stock plans from online would cut the mustard in Florida. Guess what? They won't. From what I have learned, Florida has one of the most strict building codes, and in Hillsborough County the plans must be stamped by an engineer. So, I went shopping for a draftsman, architect, structural engineer, etc. I have only spoken with one company so far and was told that if I bought the CAD file for the house we selected, they would have to bring it to code, make the somewhat minor modification we have specified, and then review it structurally - altogether including plans, it could cost over $7,000. It was also suggested that I just allow them to custom design my house for $6,000. These numbers just seem a little high, so I am going to keep looking.

In the meantime, I haven't heard from the county Plan Examiner that I left a message for last Thursday - lol - an omen of things to come...?

Posted by Rachal in Janesville, CA on 6/15/2009 Rachal's Forum Posts: 79 Journal Entries: 31 Interview Answers: 62 Average Forum Rating: 3.84 Rachal's Selected Image 6/15/2009

The same thing happened to me in California. Whenever I went to sites that sold plans they always made exceptions for California and Florida. I ended up changing my search for house plans after getting frustrated with the $3,500 engineering fee I would have to spend just to get the "stamp". So, I asked local engineers if they could refer me to any home designers that may have homes that have been previously designed and stamped (hoping to cut down the cost).  They referred me to a local home designer (not an architect) who wasn't even in the phone book. When I talked to her about my frustration with the fees for engineering she told me that "You CAN build a house without having it engineered." The key is to use standard building techniques. Some examples are: No windows within four feet of a corner... standard-height ceilings... etc. So I paid her $1,200 for a set of house plans that were within standard building techniques, took it to the county, and am now building it without paying the $3,500 engineering fee. I know this isn't for everyone. I am not building my DREAM house. I am building a house that will be functional for my large family. You may want to talk to a local designer and find out if your house can fall into standard building techniques for Florida.

Posted by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/15/2009 Donna's Forum Posts: 4 Journal Entries: 11 Interview Answers: 44 Average Forum Rating: 3.00 Donna's Selected Image 6/15/2009

Thanks, Rachal - you are absolutely right! The fees are just becoming outrageous! I just found a local draftsman with over 30 years in the business and all of his references are posted on his website. He is quoting me $1/sq. ft. from beginning to end - including the stamp! The only "extra" expense is the site plan that is a flat $200. I am so excited. I think we may actually get off the ground!

My Head is Spinning

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/11/2009

After continuing to read posts here, it occurred to me that we should not have the website company that we plan to purchase our plans from make changes to them. It appears it would be a waste of money, because I still need to have them reviewed by a structural engineer to make sure they meet Florida codes. I am assuming this is one mistake that has been avoided - yay me!

I have been doing some homework on the best way to get plans modified and approved. In my case, it appears having a draftsman make my minor changes then passing them off to a structural engineer would be the most cost-effective. I have put a call into the county to speak with a residential plans examiner so I can "pick her brain." In the meantime, the call into the county yielded another question - what about impact fees? In my mind I figured that since we already live on the property, that they would not be as much as if we just bought the place. The well and the septic are already here, so what is the impact at this point? I have more calls to make. 

Once I talk with the examiner, I can be better informed as to what a draftsman will do, or if I will need an archtect. I'll keep you posted.

In the Beginning...

Posted to Massive-Undertaking by Donna in Wimauma, FL on 6/10/2009

Hello everyone! Wow, what a site! I have read, and read, and then read some more! You all are an inspiration and an incredible wealth of information!

So, please allow me to introduce you to my family. My name is Donna and my husband is Ronnie. We have four kids all together, but one is grown and out of the house (he turns 19 next week!) Then we have Matthew who is 8, Ashley who is four and Donnie, who just turned 8 months! Plus, my Mom, Lee. 

Well, one day while sitting around the kitchen table, my Mom had this wonderful idea, "...Why don't we build a house together here?..." My Mom owns just under 9 acres in southern Hillsborough County. She has a double-wide trailer on it in which we are all currently living (a whole topic in and of itself.) Anyway, we gave it some thought, jotted down some ideas, and generally kicked it around for a while. Since Mom and I generally like the same things (styles, colors, etc.), we all get along incredibly well, and Ronnie has been in construction all of his life, we decided it was not only a good idea, but that we would be an owner-builder! 

Mom and I began in earnest. I spent two weeks researching house plans. We need a lot of space for three kids, and for Mom to have her own suite. Just as every floor plan was beginning to look the same, we came across this one.  Out came the measuring tape so we could visualize the size of every room. The point is to have our blueprints modified exactly the way we want them before we buy them. Every inch of the floor plan was reviewed with a magnifying glass - literally! This is going to work perfectly! After reading some of the journals here, I am afraid that is the last time I am going to feel that way for at least a year!

We are at the point now of creating our sketches of the modifications we want so we can take bids on modifying our plans. Once that is determined I think the next step is to have them reviewed by a local architect for code compliance, and to get the stamp of approval so the county will accept them when we submit our permit application. (Are we really doing this???!)

So far, I am creating spreadsheets and reading everything I can so we can get a feel for how much money we are actually looking at and if this whole thing is really just a dream. We are not going to purchase the plans until the bid comes back from the site offering the plans.

I have already saved us money! I found the same house plans on another site for cheaper and they do modifications too, so we'll see what happens. After that, I plan to see if the modifications could be done by the same architect doing the review at a comparable cost.

Here we go!