Finished re-reading The Owner Builder Book for the 4th time.  Of all the books I own (and they are legion), this one definitely rates in the top 20 of books read over and over and over again. Karla in Silver Springs, NV

Contractor chatter

Posted to ComfortHome by Mary Beth in Dublin, OH on 8/30/2007 12:49:59 PM

This week my architect has set up 4 interviews with local builders. This is a service this achitect offers to help the client set a budget or to know where to go back and modify plans for budetary purposes. While I really appreciate getting this info, it has been disheartening, too. I was fully expecting their proposals to come in higher than what I want to pay, but they are coming in way too high. I could never modify my house enough to even find ways to make a budget!!!.....So far I have met 2 builders. Both were extremely different but both very good at what they do. They were alike in that they were both very organized and anally detail oriented. One builder was the nuts to bolts guy with the proposal listing every spec that he includes in his bid with model numbers and all. He came having done major homework. A stack at least 3 inches high of all the bids and calculations he had on our project. He had a mock up of the parcel along with the soil test results the county has on file. His proposal is cost plus 10%. It included all our square feet which from basement to 2nd floor is about 8900 sq ft. It works out to be about 100.00 a sq ft and I can't imagine doing that any cheaper by myself. There is no way I could afford the price he quoted. We still haven't bought the land which is what is putting this out of our reach. We could do the home as long as we didn't have to buy land!! Darn land!!!

The other builder was more of a glorified Ubuild it. He has a ton of experience and even wrote a book for the military about organization and efficiency. I like his m.o. because he would allow me to be as involved or not as I please. He has great tradesmen, but I can bid out all the rest. However, he is cost plus 20%. OUCH! If money were not an issue I would just use his services. I could definitely save myself the headaches...just not the bucks.

I need someone to prop me up and tell me it is still worth it to go this alone!!! I am losing my nerve!!!!

The journey begins....

Posted to ComfortHome by Mary Beth in Dublin, OH on 8/19/2007

This project has probably been years in the making. Something in me has always had these crazy notions that I could build a house (or manage the building of....) Most everyone tells me I'm nuts as we have 6 kids complete with all the craziness that comes with raising 5 boys-3 in their early teen years. Surprisingly, my husband is my biggest supporter. He knows I am a project minded person. Projects are what keep me sane. That sounds crazy, but when I am engaged in something that stimulates and interests me I cope better with everything else. Esp. the stuff I really don't enjoy doing. We currently live in a home we built with a contractor 5 years ago. We got incredibly lucky in that we liked the lot but it came with a builder. Thankfully, the builder worked out OK, but.......I was always frustrated with all the "unknowns" that came with the project. The unknowns of all the things that I couldn't have thought through in the week he gave us to think about the contract. The change orders that happened drove me insane!!! I also drove him crazy because I commandeered the option of ordering all my fixtures, plumbing and electrical through my own sources. I worked within my budget although not the conventional places he would get his kickbacks. Anyhoo......he I am 5 years later and I have the itch to do it "my way" (cue the Sinatra music please!)

The more interesting factoid right now is we don't own any land! We live in suburbia but want to buy some property that will allow us to feel like we have some privacy but to be close enough to amenities, too. the problem is there is very little opportunity to buy land that hasn't already been bought by developers or there is land that is owned by farmers that do not want to sell. I should know. I wrote personal letters to over 10 large parcel owners asking if they would be willing to sell off a small  part of their land. That failed. But I tried! There is another parcel of land that is beautiful (10 acres), but it is pricey. Not unreasonable because of the demand, but more than we wanted to pay. However, I believe this to be the parcel that is meant for us, so I have forged ahead with that in mind.

I have been collecting plan books, design books, idea books, catalogs, written notes etc...about my house for many years. The dreaming is the most fun part. It is free! I mentioned that we have 6 kids so I am not looking at downsizing any time soon. Our current home has probably 5600 finished sq ft including the basement. We use every inch of it. I was able to eek out every inch in the this house. Most of it works really well, but now as my kids are getting older I am in need of a different way to use the space. I need a HUGE locker/mudroom! HUGE pantry and a URINAL in a bathroom that only my family has access to. I'm sick of stinky bathrooms that constantly reek of old urine. I need 6 bedrooms. My 14 year old and my 7 year old share a room. That is getting old as he trips every night over legos, army guys and tanks.

I found Mark's book and immediately realized I was on to something. I have given thought to building again but always in the context of using a contractor. That idea would start to fizzle out as I quickly would hit reality with prices and know that I could not afford to build the size and scope of home that I wanted to build. After reading this book (and some others) I concluded that this was where I needed to focus. My husband thinks I'm nuts but not crazy. He has a very limited involvement in any of this. I give him an update every few weeks or so. He knows I do not make terribly impulsive decisions although I am known to make choices that other people wince!  I began in late spring of 07 to interview architects. I resolved that I was never going to get anywhere with this project until I got serious about what kind of house I wanted and started putting my money where my ideas were. I interviewed 5 decent architects. I found them through Service Magic. I had never used this service before and was quite surprised when two of them contacted me on the very same day I put in a request. Impressive. I spent time with all 5. 2 of them stood way out above the rest. 1 had a great price and was probably capable enough, but he seemed a bit dull and his style of building looked to be too much in the box/house cookie cutter look. I did like his price though, which was 1.50 a square ft. One guy I just never connected with. He worked in some lahteedah firm, but his presentation was a nervous mess. I didn't get a good "vibe" and I thought his pricing structure would come back to bite me in the butt. Another was local to my city, and my kid played soccer with his kid. He had done some beautiful work. Very high class high brow stuff. Nice guy, but I just wasn't sure he wouldn't try to oversell me. Another architect totally assumed the sale. I went to his office and he gave me a rather dry presentation and then 3 days later I get a PDF format of the contract that I was supposed to print out sign and return. Geesh! It was an interview people! We never shook on anything! The last guy was "just right". I feel like Goldilocks here! He came to my house with his portfolio, showed me nice work in various price ranges and really seemed to listen and comment on the ideas I had in my head.  His price was pretty much midway in the pack. I think it will run a tad over 2.00 a sq ft for the top floors and 1.00 a sq ft for the basement. We have been working since May and I have been very impressed. He has really tried to stay within my guidelines while keeping the style intact. I didn't want to end up with an overly pricey structure that would sink me although I needed a lot of square footage. We have met in person (either at my house or at Panera!) probably 5 or  6 times. The rest we have been able to do online. I now have a set of bid prints and have yet to pay this guy a dime!!! I know it is coming, and I do have a copy of the contract, but he seems more concerned about getting it right. He also didn't charge extra for working on the budget and finding builders willing to bid it out to help us do that. He seals everything and doesn't charge extra. When the final engineering seal is needed I only pay cost and printing costs. I have been thrilled. We are still working on the premise that we will eventually end up on this 10 acre parcel. It hasn't sold yet which I take as a positive sign. In the beginning I had really hoped to break ground in the fall. Somewhere in the summer reality sunk in and I decided that I just needed to go very slowly and not try to put any timetable on this yet. That has been a wise choice. I am now exploring the option of asking for a land contract with the owner of this land. I really don't want to dip into our equity to buy this and I don't want to do a bunch of loans to get it done.  I'm prayerfully hoping that this could buy us the time we need until we are ready to go the bankd and get our construction/land loan combo where then we can pay off the current owner and be done with that part and then go right into breaking ground.

Here are the plans as they currently stand..... Changes will continue to be made- I'm sure.

The journey begins....

Posted to ComfortHome by Mary Beth in Dublin, OH on 8/19/2007

This project has probably been years in the making. Something in me has always had these crazy notions that I could build a house (or manage the building of....) Most everyone tells me I'm nuts as we have 6 kids complete with all the craziness that comes with raising 5 boys-3 in their early teen years. Surprisingly, my husband is my biggest supporter. He knows I am a project minded person. Projects are what keep me sane. That sounds crazy, but when I am engaged in something that stimulates and interests me I cope better with everything else. Esp. the stuff I really don't enjoy doing. We currently live in a home we built with a contractor 5 years ago. We got incredibly lucky in that we liked the lot but it came with a builder. Thankfully, the builder worked out OK, but.......I was always frustrated with all the "unknowns" that came with the project. The unknowns of all the things that I couldn't have thought through in the week he gave us to think about the contract. The change orders that happened drove me insane!!! I also drove him crazy because I commandeered the option of ordering all my fixtures, plumbing and electrical through my own sources. I worked within my budget although not the conventional places he would get his kickbacks. Anyhoo......he I am 5 years later and I have the itch to do it "my way" (cue the Sinatra music please!)

The more interesting factoid right now is we don't own any land! We live in suburbia but want to buy some property that will allow us to feel like we have some privacy but to be close enough to amenities, too. the problem is there is very little opportunity to buy land that hasn't already been bought by developers or there is land that is owned by farmers that do not want to sell. I should know. I wrote personal letters to over 10 large parcel owners asking if they would be willing to sell off a small  part of their land. That failed. But I tried! There is another parcel of land that is beautiful (10 acres), but it is pricey. Not unreasonable because of the demand, but more than we wanted to pay. However, I believe this to be the parcel that is meant for us, so I have forged ahead with that in mind.

I have been collecting plan books, design books, idea books, catalogs, written notes etc...about my house for many years. The dreaming is the most fun part. It is free! I mentioned that we have 6 kids so I am not looking at downsizing any time soon. Our current home has probably 5600 finished sq ft including the basement. We use every inch of it. I was able to eek out every inch in the this house. Most of it works really well, but now as my kids are getting older I am in need of a different way to use the space. I need a HUGE locker/mudroom! HUGE pantry and a URINAL in a bathroom that only my family has access to. I'm sick of stinky bathrooms that constantly reek of old urine. I need 6 bedrooms. My 14 year old and my 7 year old share a room. That is getting old as he trips every night over legos, army guys and tanks.

I found the Mark's book and immediately realized I was on to something. I have given thought to building again but always in the context of using a contractor. That idea would start to fizzle out as I quickly would hit reality with prices and know that I could not afford to build the size and scope of home that I wanted to build. After reading this book (and some others) I concluded that this was where I needed to focus. My husband thinks I'm nuts but not crazy. He has a very limited involvement in any of this. I give him an update every few weeks or so. He knows I do not make terribly impulsive decisions although I am known to make choices that other people wince!  I began in late spring of 07 to interview architects. I resolved that I was never going to get anywhere with this project until I got serious about what kind of house I wanted and started putting my money where my ideas were. I interviewed 5 decent architects. I found them through Service Magic. I had never used this service before and was quite surprised when two of them contacted me on the very same day I put in a request. Impressive. I spent time with all 5. 2 of them stood way out above the rest. 1 had a great price and was probably capable enough, but he seemed a bit dull and his style of building looked to be too much in the box/house cookie cutter look. I did like his price though, which was 1.50 a square ft. One guy I just never connected with. He worked in some lahteedah firm, but his presentation was a nervous mess. I didn't get a good "vibe" and I thought his pricing structure would come back to bite me in the butt. Another was local to my city, and my kid played soccer with his kid. He had done some beautiful work. Very high class high brow stuff. Nice guy, but I just wasn't sure he wouldn't try to oversell me. Another architect totally assumed the sale. I went to his office and he gave me a rather dry presentation and then 3 days later I get a PDF format of the contract that I was supposed to print out sign and return. Geesh! It was an interview people! We never shook on anything! The last guy was "just right". I feel like Goldilocks here! He came to my house with his portfolio, showed me nice work in various price ranges and really seemed to listen and comment on the ideas I had in my head.  His price was pretty much midway in the pack. I think it will run a tad over 2.00 a sq ft for the top floors and 1.00 a sq ft for the basement. We have been working since May and I have been very impressed. He has really tried to stay within my guidelines while keeping the style intact. I didn't want to end up with an overly pricey structure that would sink me although I needed a lot of square footage. We have met in person (either at my house or at Panera!) probably 5 or  6 times. The rest we have been able to do online. I now have a set of bid prints and have yet to pay this guy a dime!!! I know it is coming, and I do have a copy of the contract, but he seems more concerned about getting it right. He also didn't charge extra for working on the budget and finding builders willing to bid it out to help us do that. He seals everything and doesn't charge extra. When the final engineering seal is needed I only pay cost and printing costs. I have been thrilled. We are still working on the premise that we will eventually end up on this 10 acre parcel. It hasn't sold yet which I take as a positive sign. In the beginning I had really hoped to break ground in the fall. Somewhere in the summer reality sunk in and I decided that I just needed to go very slowly and not try to put any timetable on this yet. That has been a wise choice. I am now exploring the option of asking for a land contract with the owner of this land. I really don't want to dip into our equity to buy this and I don't want to do a bunch of loans to get it done.  I'm prayerfully hoping that this could buy us the time we need until we are ready to go the bankd and get our construction/land loan combo where then we can pay off the current owner and be done with that part and then go right into breaking ground.

Here are the plans as they currently stand..... Changes will continue to be made- I'm sure.