Alan in La Habra Heights, CA 25 entries to date 2 forum posts to date
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 8/26/2007
Got this email and thought I'd make a general reply and give a general update:
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Alan, I enjoyed your journal and am going to start building in Big Bear. How far along are you now? Did you end up using that GC with the lumber connections? How is your sq ft price working out? Are you still in the $150 range? I am a Cal licensed painting contractor with a home improvement certification, but do all the trades. I will be using a GC to put up the shell and I will be doing the rest, except for the drywall and insulation. You couldn't pay me enough to do those trades. I have been quoted a $165 sq ft price for the shell, but am trying to figure out the rest. My plans are ready to go and are permitted. All we need is our construction loan, but I have to finish getting the rest of the bids together first. Any hints or help you can send my way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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I did end up using that GC, however, I fired him last week for many reasons. He didn't have a schedule or a budget, was trying to take kickbacks, and generally was an a-hole (pardon my french). The good news is I needed to cut $500K out of a $2.5M budget and that was $100K of it :) I'm going to be doing the GC work myself. I work as a project manager and have a good knowledge of most of the trades...and I don't trust this job to anyone else right now.
Price per sq foot (hard costs only) will likely be in the $180-$190 range for HIGH end. I got quotes in the $180 range for medium end for GC's to do the whole job. I have to say, unless you have some VERY unusual things going on with your lot or your house, $165 for the shell seems really high. I recommend breaking down what is required to get you to that $165 in a spreadsheet so you can look at the individual pieces. I have attached an old copy of my foundation cost estimate (ignore the numbers, they're mostly all wrong) to give you an idea of the level of detail I would go to.
Once you have your spreadsheet, you can get material costs. Once you have material costs you also have total labor costs. Do yourself a favor - figure out how many guys you plan on having on the site and how long you expect them to be there (rough estimates) - then figure out their daily rate using your total labor costs - you might find that you're paying guys $300-$500/day ...this means it's time to get some more bids...
As for where I'm at - the basement footers are dug and we're laying down the rebar next week. If the gods smile on me, then by the end of next week I'll be pouring concrete. The big thing on my mind right now is that I think I'm going to change soil engineers - and I need to get a soil inspection before I can pour - I'm making the calls tomorrow morning first thing so this doesn't hold me up.
Look forward to hearing how your build goes.
-Alan
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 8/16/2007
The work has finally really started. It took about 2 weeks to dig a massive hole in the ground and some of the basic grading around the site. I've also finally gotten around to uploading some photos so I'll post a bunch.
Photos: demo, grading, basement excavation, trenches for retaining wall. The photos of the super steep area in the back is where the massive new concrete deck is going in.
Some background on the pics - basement is 10' deep approx 2,800 sq feet in size. The retaining walls that the trenches are being dug for are part of approx 1,200 linear feet of retaining wall that needs to be put in, not including the basement or deck in back. The deck in back is a little over 1,000 sq feet in size. At the far end it will be approx 25 feet off the ground. Before anyone gets the great idea of a basement or a massive concrete deck let's point out that they are going to cost over $100K each...certainly not the cheapest part of the project...
The deck in back is interesting - it consists of 14 caissons, 2' diameter each, 20 feet into bedrock. Then there's a grade beam, about 2'x2' that connects the tops of each of the caissons (grade beam is partially buried in the ground - should be touching bedrock). On top of the grade beam they build a concrete block wall. When they get it to grade, they shore it and pour an 8" concrete deck over the top - it basically forms a big box. I can't wait to see it actually happen.
The basement also had a little catch - the lid over the top of it is 12" of concrete, rather than wood subfloor. This will make the basement like a large box also and will be made to withstand almost anything thrown at it (such as a massive earthquake).
A funny(?) fact about the project - we're expecting to use about 1,000 yards of concrete for everything - probably end up more like 1,200....that's 120 truckloads...can't even imagine where it's all going to go..
Photos
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 8/7/2007
It's been a little while since I last posted - a few things have happened, not nearly as much as I'd like, but what can you do? Here's a quick overview of the high points and what I've learned. As usual this post will be stream of consciousness and won't make much sense to anyone other than the clinically insane.
1. Financing: not sure where I left off with this, but the loan has closed and funded. The fees, etc. are outrageous for a loan of this size, but to be expected I suppose since they were the same/higher for the other offers I got. Actually I should be happy that I closed when I did given how much rates have gone up - and that I wouldn't even qualify for the loan with the new more strict rules they have in place. My recommendation for funding - start early, get all the paperwork ready so you can pull the trigger at any time then when rates take a little dip you can move on it.
2. Permit: Finally got approved to pull my permit. I got the demo permit a couple months ago (see Demo below) and my final grading and construction permit are now ready to be pulled, I just need to pay the fees. For the school fees, you pay a set rate per square foot of livable space. Thus your goal is to minimize your livable space - make sure they don't include any balconies, entries, basements, garages, etc. Also - you get to reduce the sq footage by the sq footage of the house that you demoed - just bring in the demo permit sheet and they'll do the math for you. All in all, my school fees will work out to something like $18K - the first item on my budget that came in lower than my original estimate! The actual grading and building permits came in right at $30K.
3. Demo: Pulled the demo permit a couple months ago - it was cheap. Had a couple parties at the house with friends - drank lots of beer and destroyed the place (bricks through windows, spray painted everything, tore down walls) - it was the most fun I've had since we started this project. Then the bulldozer came (actually a small Bobcat) and tore the whole place down in a couple days and hauled it all off. Had to hook up the temporary electric pole ($1,400). They also ripped out a number of tree trunks, flatwork, etc. They still have some flatwork in the back and the old septic tank (oh yeah - had that pumped before removal). I'll post some pics of this tonight when I get home.
4. Grading: Had the surveyor come out and mark the corners of the basement and shoot some of the elevations. The guys started today moving some of the dirt so we can start putting in the retaining walls and the basement. The grading will take several weeks. The key is to make sure they are doing things in the right order - need to get stuff going so there can be multiple crews on site at the same time doing things (pouring basement, building retaining walls, etc) but also need to make sure that nobody is doing something that will get in someone else's way in the future.
5. Foundation: Bids are coming in on the foundation work. It's very complex stuff apparently. The deck in the back looks to be about $100K. The basement (2,800 sq feet) with a 12" lid seems to be another $100K or so... the slab for the rest of the house - fairly cheap...the retaining walls all over the property another $150K or so...all in all bids are looking to be about $450K - I'm pushing however and want to see if I can get it done for about $350K. I put together a little spreadsheet (attached) to try and get to the bottom of why the foundation costs so damn much. I mean - really - it's just rebar, concrete and block when you get down to it - not that much magic.
The key here is that I was able to pull out the full materials cost and the rental costs. If you want to change the cost of a yard of concrete, great, do it and the spreadsheet will automatically update. Once you agree on the materials costs (and the rental costs) the rest of the cost is labor. This too can be broken down - you can find out how long they expect to be on site, how many guys, etc. When you break it down like this it's much easier to bargain than when they come in with a total cost of $450K to do "everything"... I fully plan on doing this breakout with a number of other trades as well - for example - you could do this for plumbing, electrical, drywall, framing, etc - really helps to bring out the hidden costs and overhead so you can bargain better.
6. Doors and windows. I have the framing lined up and the guy will install my doors and windows so long as they are on site when he is ready to put them in. Since there can be a pretty long lead time on these items I figure to get them lined up now. I found a really cool door place at etodoors.com I went and visited their warehouse - they have tons of doors in stock and do lots of their own work - very good stuff, but without the foo-foo overhead you'll find in other places. Most of their stuff is Brazilian mahogany which is what I'm looking for. Even better - their 9 and 10' interior doors are a solid two and a quarter inch thick...now that's a door! The guy I spoke to seemed willing to bargain as well so I'm sure I'll be able to work something out given the large number of doors I need.
They also do the iron front doors - I've seen a few of these and I like them... I also like the wood doors, but I think the iron doors give a better look to the front. I need to come up with the design for the door so I bought a book that just shows hundreds of different types of wrought iron design. I figure the interior doors are about $1,000/each (after bargaining) and the front door is about $10-$15K. They also had some nice mahogany, iron and glass doors that would look nice for the other exterior doors...
Windows are a bit of a pain. I've looked at tons of different types, styles, etc. The first thing I needed to do was go through the entire house, looking at both the floor plan and elevations and decide what type of window would fit best in each place - sliding, gliding, casement, awning, fixed, etc. The next step was figuring out the type. I knew I didn't want the vinyl because they look horrible, so it was a tossup between wood and wood clad. I think I'm going to end up going with the wood clad however, because the thought of staining the windows outside frame every few years is not appealing. The first bid I got for windows was from a top of the line store for their top of the line windows (Loewen's). It came in at $150K. I'll now take it to a few other places (Home Depot, Lowe's, local window stores) and get it priced out there as well. Make sure you tell the guys you want to have a few different options. Once they do the takeoff (exact size of each of the windows), getting quotes is as easy as pushing a button, so don't be shy asking for multiple quotes from one place. My goal for windows is $50K - we'll see how I do...
7. General: If you're just starting out and you try to put a budget or schedule together and it doesn't seem to make sense or come together right, don't worry - keep working on it and it will eventually all start to make sense. I use my budget sheet and schedule every day now - they are like guiding posts - they also remind me what's coming up and what I need to be preparing for.
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 2/21/2007
Here's an interesting twist - I may actually be able to SAVE money using a GC rather than doing an OB...
During the past month or so of getting bids from each of the different trades, I've also met with some GC's who are interested in bidding on the entire job. I've told them that they are welcome to bid, but given that I'm going to OB, chances are good their prices will be too high. The first GC's price was so high it wasn't even worth calling him back (1.9M just to get the house roughed in!) There was one GC though that I felt comfortable with and he came back with a price that is about 10-15% below what I can get if I do it OB. I spent a few hours talking with him about how he can get the prices so low and basically it's as follows - he can get the materials cheaper than I can because he knows and goes directly to the manufacturer (example, he is going to Portland, Oregon to buy the lumber directly from where Home Depot buys their lumber from - and at a price only slightly higher than HD pays) Also - he has a crew of 26 guys which he augments with additional crews as needed (example - more framers, more brick layers, etc) to get the job done quicker, but it is always his guys leading the work. Using his own crew he is able to handle the small things that come up that end up costing a lot if you want someone to come out and take care of them - no one wants to come out for a half day to fix something - they will typically charge more for this. Tons of examples of this - plumber bids don't include connection to septic tank or fire sprinklers, demo bids don't include monthly trash pickup, foundation drainage and waterproofing is extra charge from foundation contractor, etc.
For my due dillagance I've gone out and visited 4 job sites that he is currently working on - two are hillside homes with difficult foundations. I will also be calling some references for homes he's completed. He's licensed, bonded, insured.
The deal we've come up with is as follows - we have a base price for everything except the fixtures (the price of these can vary greatly). The GC will be locking in the price of the materials, etc over the next 60 days and will work to bring the price down from our agreed upon price - any savings he's able to get we will split 60/40 - payable at the end of the project. The contract will be written at the end of the 60 days after he has the final cost of everything. The fixtures and other not included items I will buy directly (with his help and contractors account) and he will install.
Any thoughts, questions, things I should be looking out for?
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 1/25/2007
Got a few more bids on fire sprinklers. The lead candidate right now is estimating 15k for 10,200 sq feet, and has already said that any stainless pipe needed (they typically use orange plastic? pipe for non-exposed areas) would be covered for a couple hundred bucks - he's also ok with the high ceilings, etc. As a side note, he said that there would likely be more than 100 heads! and would thus require a fire alarm system (to be installed by someone else so I don't think he is trying to rip me off). The 15k covers plans, permits, installation and inspections. Fire alarm and wiring is separate, and the plumber is required to bring the water line to the house (line splits once it enters house, one line is solely for fire sprinklers and the other is for the rest of the house.)
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 1/22/2007
Another update:
The Structural plans are complete. This is a massive amount of inforamation that includes everything from how thick the walls are to how big the windows are and everything in between. There are dozens of detailed drawings of how the roof lines should come together, how joists should be done, etc. Also loads of calculations for the basement, house foundation, decks, etc. To be honest I haven't even had the time/energy to read through everything, but think it's important because this is the time to find out and make changes. For example, how long do you want your roof eaves to be? Correct it now or regret it later... I turned these into the city and they should get back to me within 2 weeks.
Permits - along with the structural drawings, I submit for permits for the grading and new construction. They get approved at the same time (used to be able to get grading approved first so you could get started, but no more). As an FYI - they do a valuation on your home based on square footage of house/garage/etc and charge you a plan check fee (paid when submit) and a permit fee (to be paid when permits are issued). For me each of these things is about 20k, so 40k total.
Next steps:
Fire sprinklers: I called a few places for fire sprinkler bids (required). Basically I just need the fire sprinkler plan now (as part of plan check) and the work itself won't be done until the finish plumbing is done. I've gotten one bid so far and it is 20k (seems to be my lucky number this week). This appears to be in the range, but I'm going to get a few more bids before deciding next week.
Septic tank/Seepage pits: Based on the size of the house, the county of LA has sized my septic tank based on 9 bedrooms (even though there are only 6). This means that I'll need to get a 2500 gallon tank and percolate for 2100 gallons. Here's the process (as I understand it) that needs to be followed: Septic guy will design the placement of tank and pits (1 current and 1 expansion). He will then dig and place the tank, and dig the pits with 2' diameter. My engineer will then come out and fill the pits with water and test the percolation to make sure everything is ok. The Septic guy then digs the pit to 5' diameter and lines one of the pits. Problem in getting a bid for this is you don't know exactly how deep the pit will need to be, what kind of rocks they may hit..and the worst - if it doesn't percolate well, a 2nd or 3rd pit will need to be dug. I'm going to get a few guys out at the site to look around, give me a general price for some of the known pieces of work, then choose based on who I trust not to screw me when things change.
Bank loan - I was told several months ago by the banks that I should begin applying for a loan when I submit my structural drawings - looks like it's time to dust off the rolodex and start calling back some of the people I was working with before to get locked. The thing here is that you don't want to lock too early because the clock starts once you get the loan - then you have 18 months to complete and if you're late, it can be very expensive...don't want to start the clock and then not start construction for a few months...
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 10/27/2006
Another attempt at uploading my floorplans...there have been a few changes since these were done, but the basic stuff is there...
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 10/27/2006
The story poles went up several weeks ago. I was thinking about doing it myself then thought how little fun it would be working with sticks 30+ feet tall. My architect recommended a guy and he did it for about $2000 for an approx 10,000 sq foot house. This included labor and materials, a staking plan and a formal signoff from a surveyor that they were accurate. The city came by and checked them out and didn't have a problem with them. Sorry the pictures were taken in the evening so the lighting isn't very good... If I had to do it again I'd probably do it myself and save about $1500 - it really doesn't need to be very exact and you can do a really soddy job and it's ok - won't affect the final outcome of your house... If you're going to hire someone call around - I got bids as high as $5000.
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 10/27/2006
Wow...after what seems like forever the day has finally arrived...I have my final approval from the city!! The first 3 steps from my previous entry have been completed. I got all my plans submit, got the story poles erected, got approval from the city and then lasted through the 2 week approval appeal period. And all this was JUST in the nick of time. The city I live in just approved a new set of building codes which would make my house impossible to build - these new codes go into effect for all plans approved after November 6th of this year...I was grandfathered in by one month! Talk about just in the nick of time...
I have some pictures of the story poles so I'll write another entry right after this one to include those...
Current Steps:
1. The engineer is currently working on the detailed drawings for the property. This means everything from the footings, to how thick the walls need to be, to how many windows there are, etc. Once these are done (end of the year) they need to be approved by the city engineers - not that big a deal.
2. Sewer system report - this is a report that is required by the County of Los Angeles for new septic systems. My soil guy is working on this now - it basically shows information of the percolation test and plans for where the new septic tank and seepage pits are going to go. The county has a specific form (many pages) that needs to be filled out, then there is about an 8 week turn around time for them to think about it, spend the permit money you gave them, and finally approve it.
3. The other thing that's ongoing is coming up with the details for the home. My mom (discussed in an earlier entry) is coming up with a color pallete (sp?) for the house to make it easier to choose things out like flooring (which color wood and marble), countertops (marble), walls, lighting, cabinets, etc. She also put together a book that lists out all the interior finish details for the house, room by room so nothing would be forgotten. For example the Entry listing has Entry doors, flooring, base molding, crown molding, electrical fixtures, lighting, columns, paint, etc, etc. There are 18 pages of listings! I can't tell you how nice it is to have someone else (professional) looking out for these things otherwise my mind would explode.
Semi-interesting learnings:
For the detailed drawings 2 things are required (at least for me) that are a bit out of the ordinary. First is a detailed landscape plan. This isn't too big a deal because I've already spent a lot of time thinking about it, but could have been... My architect is going to take care of putting this together formally (for free) - what a lifesaver - this can easily cost 100's to 1000's of $$ for an acre lot. Second is that I need to have a complete fire sprinkler plan for the house including the attached garage. You get this from the guy who will be installing the fire sprinklers -- I suppose it's all part of the package.
PS - I know that the pictures didn't load - I will attempt to reupload them in a new journal entry...
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 5/18/2006 3:15:49 PM
Here are the elevations and sections submit to the city
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 5/18/2006 3:13:35 PM
Here are the actual floorplans submit to the city...
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 5/18/2006 3:06:25 PM
Here are the actual Topo and Site plans that were submit to the city...
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 5/18/2006 2:59:47 PM
The Soil engineer finally finished which allowed the grading engineer to finish his work. The punchline is that the entire site is bedrock - great for foundations, bad for septic tanks. There are no signs of uneven earth movement and the bedrock doesn't appear to have any large boulders to complicate digging.
This last Monday I was finally able to take the package down to the planning dept and submit it. To be honest it was quite anti-climatic. The city engineers will now spend the next 2 weeks reviewing the plans, then the city planner will spend 1-2 weeks compiling the issues, recommendations, etc. I will be receiving a letter on or before June 15th letting me know what needs to be fixed before I can get approval.
Here are the remaining steps that need to happen before I can begin any construction:
1. Preliminary approval from the city. This will take a minimum of 2 months - in 4 weeks I get a letter telling me what's wrong. Resubmit, then 1 more month to get verificiation of the corrections. This could get dramatically extended if they find major problems - a huge variable for a project like this.
2. Story poles and building sign put up. Basically they put up 2x4's and flag lines to show the future outline of the property. Any city residents who have a problem with the builiding come out and complain at this time. The poles must be up for 30 days. Any resident complaints must be addressed - another big variable. About this time I (and anyone reading this) am wondering why in the world anyone would want to build in a city like this.... the up side is that your neighbors can't build something horrible either...
3. Final city approval - Once all this is done, the city will give approval of the plans. You'd think the pain was over and the fun could begin - however, you'd be forgetting the next few painful steps...
4. Design firm needs to provide structural drawings. This is part of the fixed bid package with the Architect and is one of their most time consuming steps. They need to identify every piece of wood, cubic yard of concrete, metal post, etc that goes into the house. This is estimated to take 6 weeks to complete.
5. Estimates - Once the structural drawings are complete I can finally get some actual bids on the work. These bids will make up the overall budget, which must be submit to the bank to get funding.
6. Funding - see previous posts for the fun I'm having with this one...
7. City approval of structural - this comes in many different steps and isn't that big of a deal (although the approval costs do add up)
8. If I haven't died of old age yet I can finally begin building the home of my dreams. I figure by the time the house is finally done I'll have new dreams by then and need to begin again....
I've realized one thing (lots of things actually, but only one which I'll share right now) - you need to enjoy the journey. If your not able to do so, don't do this! I realize for a house like this it really is going to be a 3 year journey - that's way too long not to be having fun....
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 4/14/2006 3:39:15 PM
Went in on Wednesday to have the planning dept look over our plans. I didn't review the finalized plans from the architect prior to submission and I paid the price for it. They were imcomplete in some areas, too complete in other areas and the attention to detail was missing. For example - they specifically asked for dashed lines to mark setbacks, my plans had them in solid lines. Little things - but they added up to a fairly annoyed planning dept member. From the notes I took I came up with 3.5 pages of bullets items that needed to be fixed before we re-submit the plans. For my city at least, they tell you exactly what they want - spend the time to make sure you get them exactly what they want. Don't expect others to be detail oriented enough to get it all right the first time - I found it's up to you to take responsibility for every deliverable (need to earn your 20% OB price savings :) I've spent an additional 15 hours working on cleaning up the application - making sure, double sure, and triple sure that I have everything nailed down perfectly before I take it back to the planning commission. The architect will have the updated plans by Monday, but I'll still need to review (and I imagine update) before going back to the city - I hope to have this done by next Tues or Wed...
The soil team is coming back out on Saturday for their 3rd visit (see previous posts for pics of previous visits.) I believe this time they will be drilling some 50' holes by hand auger in places where the truck couldn't go. This includes the hillside in back where we are intending to put a massive new deck...I'm praying for bedrock in that area!
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 4/14/2006 3:26:50 PM
pictures are too big - had to add under a second post...
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Posted to 10000-sq-feet by Alan in La Habra Heights, CA
on 4/14/2006 3:25:43 PM
Drill truck came out and dug some 4" diameter holes 50' deep. They said they would dig till they hit water or 50' whichever came first - didn't even get close to water. The engineer who came out said everything looked good - clays, no sand. Entire process took about 4 hours.
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